<p>The new Forbes rankings are out:</p>
<p>We don’t understand what your question is…?</p>
<p>Yes— Williams is a great school, but Princeton is the best undergraduate program in the WORLD, not just the USA.</p>
<p>Williams was #1 the last two years. That said, all ranking systems are woefully problematic, and the Forbes list is one of the most poorly devised.</p>
<p>^^ Actually, Princeton is a solid (definitely easier to ace) undergraduate program, probably better than most of the 8 ivies, but can’t hold a candle to the top dedicated undergraduate institutions (e.g. Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore). Great name, great grad programs in many fields, but the emphasis is not undergraduate.</p>
<p>What makes you say Williams is better than Princeton? That seems counterintuitive.</p>
<p>herenow: it may be counterintuitive, but I believe you’ll find many, many Williams students, professors, and alumni who will agree with Dad2. I have no strong opinion on the matter, myself, but they’re certainly comparable, at the very least.</p>
<p>Who cares? They are both excellent institutions–as are a scad of other fine colleges and universities. </p>
<p>This desire to quantify that which cannot be quantified baffles me. It posits a level of precision that cannot exist. The boosterism of “We’re number One” is plainly infantile. Number of one of what, says who, how is it measured, and, most importantly, what does it matter?</p>
<p>Will some students now not apply because Williams has “slipped” to number two in some magazine’s poll? Good-- they probably are students the College could well afford to do without.</p>
<p>Have you read that Emery has been caught manipulating data so as to get a better rating–shame-- not just that it cheated, but that it felt that it HAD to do so. </p>
<p>Please don’t pay any attention to such publications and threads such as this one.</p>
<p>etondad: just because a person doesn’t support something doesn’t necessarily mean she mustn’t pay it any mind. There are many, many things in life I don’t care for, but I’d still rather be aware of them (and even up to date on their changes and impacts) than bury my head in the sand…(and I’m sure I don’t have to point out the irony of taking the time to join a thread only to tell others not to pay attention to the thread!)</p>
<p>The main significance of rankings that place the best LACs at the “top of the heap” is that they place LACs on the radar for the college-going public who consider anything other than a university-based undergraduate program to be in a different (and somehow lesser) universe. Students at Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and their peer institutions are easily as talented as those students at HYPS, but have opted for a more rigorous, undergraduate-focused program- they already have thick skin, or they would have opted for an “ivy”, but the unparalleled quality of the sLACs should not be a deep,dark secret.</p>
<p>So what is it that makes Williams and other top LACs as good or better than Princeton? Dad2 says Princeton doesn’t hold a candle to Williams. That’s a pretty strong claim (which I still find counterintuitive).</p>
<p>Princeton surely has a higher percentage of top people in their fields on their faculty and more brilliant students (math olympiad winners etc). And it’s loaded with money. What’s missing? Is there something about the teaching style or general culture at Williams that makes it so much better? Or some unique opportunities it offers to help students develop intellectually that aren’t available at Princeton? I’m really curious to hear why.</p>
<p>Is that really true “top LACs as good or better than Princeton”? For what? I guess noone really knows. Someone try to prove it:</p>
<p>What differentiates Williams from the big Ivies is its small size. The faculty is just as prestigious, but–since there are so few students and no grad students vying for attention–profs pay much more attention to their undergrads. This means two things: 1) If you should fall behind or need help (and you seek help), you do have the option of talking to your prof one-on-one. Profs are extremely accessible. 2) Opportunities for faculty-supervised research and independent study abounds. You just have to put yourself out there.</p>
<p>Students at the very top LACs also have a much harder time graduating without good writing skills. Since TAs don’t teach or grade papers, essay feedback is straight from profs, and since profs at places like Williams are there because they’re motivated by teaching, that feedback is often remarkably effective and thorough. It may be possible to graduate without very strong reading/writing skills, but it’s very uncommon. Not the case at many larger schools, unfortunately.</p>