<p>I'm planning on applying to Williams or Amherst ED next year. I'll get a clearer picture when I visit this summer on which one specifically.</p>
<p>I can afford to pay about 30-35k a year for the schools. When I put things in the financial calculator for the 2 colleges, they predicted better than what I wanted (about 40k grant). </p>
<p>Are these calculators accurate? I can't afford full 60k, but since full need is met...and these are 2 of the richest schools in terms of per student endowment, is it a safe bet?</p>
<p>The estimators are just that; estimators. There are problems with using those numbers as fact, because they are not. If you are overlooking something, if something comes up, it can really impact those numbers. Until you actually have the info in front of you, the actual numbers, you can’t be for certain. That is why the FAFSA is not doable until 1/1 of the following year. I’ve known a number of folks burned doing this.</p>
<p>The other problem is that even schools like W and A, and its like have come up with need packages all over the map for applicants. Several posters on this forum have experienced huge variances in aid packages from their schools. For those who have poverty level incomes, the chances are smaller of some factor blowing up the family contribution amount but for those, like you. with a pretty big family contribution amount, the % variance can be significant.</p>
<p>We used the Amherst calculator when my son applied ED several years ago. Our FA came back from them almost exactly to the dollar what the calculator predicted. We do not have as large a family contribution as you expect, but neither are we “poverty level income.”</p>
<p>There are many families who do find the calculators accurate. That is not a problem at all if they are. The problem becomes if they are not accurate for a student who applies ED. or more commonly something comes up in the year or is not stuck in the estimator making the actual numbers much higher in terms of what is expected to be paid. </p>
<p>If the OP’s family finances are very simple and nothing different happens in 2011, he’s got a good chance of being solid. But say if a parent loses his/her job and gets some lump sum payout, something that happened to my brother a few years ago, well, that spikes up things quite a bit. You’re argument is lame that you can’t afford the school when the ED acceptance and fin aid package arrives. You can’t use the payout because it is a termination payout that is going to pay the family bills until mom/dad finds another job and maybe the market does not look so good. That’s just one example of something that can happen. There can be many more.</p>
<p>As Cptofthehouse said, there are things that can make the estimate less reliable in certain cases. Apart from things like one-time income or asset changes (including inheritances), other things that commonly seem to catch people unaware are real estate that is not your primary home (do you own any rentals or have property that is part of a family trust or any other legal arrangement?) and having a small business or otherwise being self-employed. Non-custodial parents or step-parents can throw things off, since their income and assets will also be part of the picture. Also savings that are held for the benefit of other children in the family (like college savings accounts). Keep in mind that any debt other than mortgage debt and medical debt is mostly not considereded, so if paying off credit card or business debt is essentially decreasing your family’s available funds, that probably won’t help you. Also, for the first year those schools will look back at your past two years financial information.</p>
<p>There may be other things to keep in mind, but if you’re a family with married parents, don’t own any property other than your family home, money comes all or mostly from regular wages, and you don’t have a business or assets other than very simple investments (savings account, retirement account, for example), and don’t have any one-time financial events in the past two years… then it will probably be pretty accurate for you.</p>
<p>Also, you need to re-apply for aid each year. We have found that our aid the first year was, as I said, virtually identical to the calculator prediction, and each year since then it has been consistent. (Our family financials have also been consistent.)</p>
<p>The other thing that concerns me about doing this are the many reports from families who do apply to like colleges and find wide variances in financial aid packages. W and A are supposed to use the same methodology and the numbers should be very much alike if not identical…but that is not what happens all of the time. If the numbers you get are what you can live with and you want to take the chance that they will the same when you do the real thing and that your family financial situation is stable and that you have not left out any info on the estimate, you can consider doing this, understanding that you are taking a risk.</p>
<p>My D applied to and was accepted at about 8 excellent LACs and received wide variances in financial aid from “100% need met schools.” Some had loans, several were similarly endowed, some were “no loan.” The differences from the “best” offer to the “worst” offer was about 27K/year. She is a Williams student which is a wonderful school with generous financial aid. She did not apply to Amherst so I don’t know if it differs in her case, but she did get a much worse package at a similarly endowed and elite LAC. </p>
<p>But, please DO NOT apply ED if you have financial need. Having a paid off house can have a big influence on your financial aid.</p>
<p>I disagree with the blanket advice to not apply ED if you have need - it depends very much on the school, on the specifics of your family finances and on the student’s feeling about the particular school. We made that decision years ago and it was an excellent one for us. If anyone would like to discuss that more as far as my perspective on it, send me a private message because it always starts a conversation here that is longer than I have the time to participate in right now.</p>
<p>Also, I’m not sure if Cpt. meant that Amherst and Williams have FA methods/policies that are similar to each other, but that isn’t true. They treat home equity differently, Williams packages loans in some aid awards, Amherst does not… and there are other differences.</p>
<p>It isn’t so much the home and cars that determine your EFC but your parent’s income. Are either of them self-employed or are they salaried employees?</p>
<p>In general I am not an advocate of going early decision when you have financial need. But in this case you have reason to believe that the award offered by Williams, for instance, would be sufficient for you to attend. Also, just to add some information, Williams fills up half of its incoming freshman class via early decision. Early decision might make the difference between you being accepted or not.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that I’m the most qualified to speak on these matters, but maybe it will be helpful. I applied as a Questbridge finalist to Williams in the RD round. I live in a single-parent household and our income is ~60000, on the higher end of the spectrum for QB. I’m matriculating to Williams which gave me by far the most generous FA package (Wesleyan and Middlebury were the two closest, but even they expected me to pay ~5000 more than Williams). The Williams package has no loans, and I won’t need to take any outside loans out; another nice aspect is the Williams book grant, which allows all the textbooks purchased by certain students to be reimbursed by financial aid.</p>
<p>I didn’t apply ED to any schools because of my financial need, but I know that ED applicants make up a large portion of the freshman class, so it is easier to get in.</p>
<p>…Hence, which is why I really want to apply to W or A early decision because they are some of my top choices. I don’t want to wait till RD, not get in, and have to go to UNC (as wonderful as an institution that Carolina is, it just doesn’t fit me…plus I <em>NEED</em> to get out of the south lol)</p>
<p>My parents are both have stable jobs and are permanent employees at extremely reputable employers (local university/Siemens). My dad <em>was</em> unemployed for 2 years from IBM and I was a QB College Prep finalist this year, but that won’t be happening next year as we exceed the QB 60k salary limit now. I would consider the relatively nice job at Siemens stable, as would my dad.</p>
<p>No my rents are not divorced/separated. They are happily married. I have a little sister. We live in a nice suburban home and do not own property elsewhere. Life is perfect right now. There are no foreseeable problems in the future. </p>
<p>Both calculators are offering a generous price tag with <em>everything</em> entered correctly. I’m just doubting their validity for ED, which is why I want to know if anyone has experienced them the way I might next year. (btw thanks rentof2 )</p>
<p>Of course, I’ll be doing this over the next few months but I’m just getting anxious because junior year is ending and I won’t have that much time this summer.</p>
<p>My personal opinion is that schools will use the same calculator for ED as they would for RD. The problem is that it is not a 100% process and if you truly need the money, you are taking a risk. At what point does one decide to decline the offer if the money does not come in where one anticipated. I’ve seen families agonize over the situation. You see, when you go through this process RD, you have other offers to that you can compare. You are truly in a vacuum with an ED offer. </p>
<p>True story. Kid applied ED, gets an offer that is not what family had hoped to get but doable with a lot of scrimping, scraping borrowing on part of the parents. As an amateur, a newibie in the process, the parent really has no way of knowing if this is going to be typical of offers the kid is going to get from other schools. Would a full ride from Colgate or Gettysburg shift the decision the other way? Is it worth withdrawing from ED for the $X discrepancy between what you thought you would get and what you got? So you discuss the situation in December under the gun for time since schools are shutting down shortly for Christmas break and you really gotta make that commitment now, but your gut is telling you that the cost is too much, but it’s not really that waaaay too much. It’s hard to let it go. I’ve seen folks that way. It’s hard enough when you can afford to do it but the problem is that parents do feel pressured to make it work because there is a lot more at stake to just let the offer go as a “No can do financially” especially when the financial calculators support the school’s numbers. </p>
<p>I don’t know specifically if W and/or A have any peculiarities in their PROFILE info that could skew the estimates. But I know one family who got a higher number because a custodial stepchild had a nice bank account left to him/her from his deceased parent. Guess what ? Sibling assets count as family assets many times on PROFILE for college. The student contribution might be more than can be stomached. UChicago requires a 4 year commitment on the student’s part for a cert % of assets that are first reported on that PROFILE. I don’t know if W and A are no loan schools, but there are schools that may give a combined Perkins/ Stafford combo that make it a bit too tight for comfort for some families with loan balances too high. </p>
<p>I’ve known some kids sadly give up the ED option which eliminates that school from the list only to find that was the best offer financially and in terms of the selectivity of schools. Or come to find that it was very likely that other schools on the list might have been far more generous. Also kids change their minds and start thinking that Honors Binghamton might make a heck of a lot more sense than the loan package that Cornell threw in there and what poor mom and dad have to suffer to pay that ED school cost. </p>
<p>There is that risk and when you want something badly in that college race, it’s easy to lose perspective, and the ED option can really raise the stakes and add pressure to an already emotionally high charged situation.</p>
<p>Cptof the house makes a valid point; oneof the downsides of applying ED is that you give up your chance to compare packages so you have no way of knowing if the package you received is the best package you could have gotten.</p>
<p>In our house, the Williams calculator was on point as far as their estimate and package. </p>
<p>Like GT alum, my daughter applied and was accepted to 7 schools that met 100% demonstrated need (including Williams and Amherst) and took the CSS profile in addition to the FAFSA. Like GT, there were a wide range of packages.</p>
<p>The difference between Williams Financial aid package and the Amherst Financial aid package</p>
<p>parent contribution (EFC) was 2251 higher at Amherst
student contribution(EFC) 975 higher at Amherst
grant money 4906 lower at Amherst
loans 3500 higher at Amherst (now Amherst has no loans)
Workstudy 100 higher at Amherst</p>
<p>11732 If all things would have remained consistent over her 4 years we would have had to come up with an extra $46,928</p>
<p>And the fact that the Williams calculator was right on for hundreds of people does not mean it will be for you, or that it would be the best number for you. When ED works out, it’s beautiful and all is well. That usually is for those who can afford the school and willing to stretch financially for it. That may be your situation. But if you truly have need, it can be a problem if those numbers don’t come out right. </p>
<p>You also should have an adult willing to work with you on the application and the financials, because when financial aid numbers don’t work out, most of the time, an 18 year old is not the best person to deal with the situaiton and GCs I have known are notoriously bad at working with financial aid. If you have a parent that isn’t facile and willing to deal with the situation, it can be a problem.</p>
<p>They build into their calculators their own FA formula. Other factors you’d have to keep in mind are financial specifics and/or events that the calculator doesn’t ask you about. There are often some one-time things, or particular income/asset issues that are not general enough to build into the calculators. They can’t anticipate every quirk of a family’s financial situation… although the CSS Profile will ask those questions, and that’s where they would come in – at the time the financial aid office is actually putting together an aid offer. The online calculators provide estimates based on typical asset and income information.</p>
<p>We did both A and W calculators when my son was deciding to apply ED (he liked both schools) – and the Williams estimate was quite a bit higher than Amherst (plus, at that time Williams was packaging loans and Amherst was not). The reason for the difference in amounts in our case was due to a different method for calculating home equity as an asset.</p>
<p>I think the online calculators are pretty reliable for people with fairly straightforward finances that fit nicely into the questions asked.</p>
<p>Yes to what 'rentof2 said. What is they list on their website is how they calculate financial aid but this would only cover family circumstances that are straightforward and it sounds like yours are.</p>
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