<p>The question is simple: Williams or Dartmouth for ED.</p>
<p>My son has grades and test scores that give him a fighting chance at either.
The outdoors (skiing, climbing, cycling) are a priority for him as well as good dorms and a community feel.</p>
<p>Williams is smaller with no frats and great sports, but are the outdoors really a focus?
Dartmouth is larger with a great outing club, but do the frats dominate (in a negative sense) the social scene?</p>
<p>Thank you for your replies</p>
<p>They were my daughter's final two choices. It was excruciating. She chose Williams but there's really no wrong answer. They're equally outdoorsy. Sports are big at both. Frats are a big deal at Dartmouth, no question, but whether that's negative is hard to say...it's just different, IMO. One of D's best friends and teammates is at Dartmouth, and loves it just as much as my daughter loves Williams. It's a choice that seems to be faced by about half the students at both colleges.</p>
<p>Like Driver's Daughter, the schools were also my D's final 2 choices however she chose Dartmouth and hasn't looked back . She absolutely loves Dartmouth. Personally, I loved Williams and she still jokes about how I had to be consoled when she chose Dartmouth. I have learned to love Darmouth too because she is so happy there. Both are equally great schools. They both have a great sense of community and educations that are focused on undergrads. For my D, she loved Williams but she did want something just a little bigger.</p>
<p>Williams acknowledges that there is a big overlap between students getting accepted to Williams Amherst and Dartmouth and there ends up being about a50 / 50 split</p>
<p>Dartmouth does have a big frat scene but pretty much every event is open to all students so even if one choses not to be part of the greek system they are not ostracized for it. This is definitely a situation where if possible your son needs to visit, sit in on classes and if applying ED, make a decision (yes, it will be a hard one).</p>
<p>This rings true for me as well. I have friends at both who both love them, so I really don't think you can go wrong, you'll probably be happy at either one.</p>
<p>Phil, has your son visited either school yet?</p>
<p>Yes, he has visited both and liked both. Both had nice campuses with Dartmouth the lesser of the two (they were in the middle of a building spree of new housing). Williams sense of community was evident in their "entry" and JA system and Dartmouth student's enthusiasm was evident in the frequest calls of "Go to Dartmouth!" that were yelled at tour groups.
A few more questions:</p>
<p>Is there pressure to join a frat at Dartmouth and are there frats that are considered socially higher?</p>
<p>Williams is a semester system and Dartmouth is a quarter system--what are the pros and cons of each?</p>
<p>Coming from a high schooler looking at the system from the outside - </p>
<p>With quarters, you get to sample more classes, but it can be a more stressful schedule because you have more tests and it seems like your finals are always looming. </p>
<p>With quarters, you get to finish all of your testing before your major breaks, so you don't have to worry about school during your breaks.</p>
<p>Students are not pressured to joing Frats. No one is allowed to pledge during their first year.</p>
<p>About the quarter system: Students take 3 classes each 10 week quarter (they have 3 opportunities to take 4 classes if they wish). </p>
<p>Fall term begins Sept 21 and ends December 7
Winter term begins Jan 4 and ends March 15
Spring term begins March 28 and ends June June 6</p>
<p>Timetable of classes:</p>
<p>There are 2 rounds of midterms and a final exam each term (final exam period runs approximately one week and there are no classes).</p>
<p>They are required to be in attendance their entire freshman and senior years in addition to sophmore summer (study abroad can begin as early as summer after freshman year)</p>
<p>The new housing (which will add approximately 500 new beds is expected to be finished Fall 06)</p>
<p>Neither.<br>
I say that simply because I feel that if you don't have a clear first choice, then it is not a good idea to go ED -- unless your son is so absolutely in love with both that he literally would be willing to decide among them based on the flip of a coin.<br>
But if there is is uncertainty, then your son either needs to gather more information at this point so that a clear first choice emerges... or else apply RD to both.</p>
<p>I know all of the arguments & concerns about ED and admission rates -- but I just don't think a kid should lock himself in when he is still undecided between two or more possibilities.</p>
<p>If I had to choose between a quarter or semester system. I would choose the quarter system. I have been in both.</p>
<p>My daughter is a little different in that she chose Dartmouth, but had one of those "I don't want to get out of the car" experiences at Williams - just didn't like Williams at all.</p>
<p>She saw downsides to the D-plan, but since study abroad was very important to her, she felt that she could actually understand how you could do a science major, and study abroad on the quarter system, because you would not be gone from campus as long. She also liked the idea of the fast pace - we'll see how that goes after first term.</p>
<p>She also wanted, coming from an area where people are very passionately attached to their colleges, a school where most of the students had that kind of school spirit. She went to a Dartmouth alumni party for student recruitment, and was so impressed with men who were to her "old guys", who were still so proud and excited about their school, and so excited for the young people, male and female, who were going now - she wanted that type of enthusiasm. Not to say Williams doesn't have that sort of feeling - she didn't let Williams get that far.</p>
<p>I agree with Calmom, though, he should have either a clear first choice, or should be choosing between schools that he loves equally. DD is a very pragmatic person, she could see pros and cons of all her choices, but could still rank them 1,2,3, etc. That was enough "love" to make ED work for her - she has had only very tiny twinges of "what if?" and those were gone by Jan 1.</p>
<p>The two schools are very similar socially, and the Williams alums I'm familiar with are certainly big boosters of the school just as Dartmouth alums are. I think the differences betseen W and D have been well described by prevoius posters; to my mind,the social life and New England setting/weather/outdoor opportunities are among the recurring themes at both schools, along with academic excellence and great facilities. </p>
<p>I certainly agree that ED should be reserved for a school one really wants to go to and that prospective students who are considering applying ED are best served by visiting schools when large numbers of students are around (even for Dartmouth, a summer visit doesn't really provide a good measure, because although one year's worth of students will be around, so are large numbers of tourists and summer-sports camp high schoolers).</p>
<p>Just to clarify--Williams is a 4-1-4 semester system and all finals occur before the break (so your winter break will be entirely free of worry). Most semester schools operate similarly--Harvard (which holds its fall semester exams after winter break) is an exception to this.</p>
<p>I was deciding between Williams and Dartmouth, although I hesitate to say that these were my final two schools--I liked Middlebury at least equally as much as Dartmouth (I ended up choosing Williams). I don't think there's a lot of pressure to join Frats at Dartmouth, but I also don't think that they're as inclusive as some imply--I visited Dartmouth during their winter carnival my frosh year at Williams and saw an ice sculpture outside one of the frats reading "no '07s" (meaning: no frosh). Williams has a very similar winter carnival to Darmouth, also has an ice sculpture tradition, but you would never see a "no '07s" ice sculpture! </p>
<p>Dartmouth is indeed bigger than Williams which makes for both a slightly livelier town/nightlife, and for larger classes. I liked the close community feeling of Williams and felt that there was more than enough to do on weekends (I'm going into my third year and I still feel that way), so in my case, Dartmouth's size was a disadvantage. Williams highlights include the JA system (which really builds community), the tutorial system (1 prof, 2 students, modeled after Oxford. Many tutorials are open to frosh although most are taken beginning sophomore or jr year.), and winter study (the 1 in the "4-1-4" semester system, Winter Study is a period in the month of January where students take one interesting class pass-fail. I've taken photography courses both of my winter studies--I'm a philosophy major--and absolutely loved them). </p>
<p>The Williams Outing Club is at least as active as Dartmouth's Outing Club (in fact, from what I've heard, they're extremely similar).</p>
<p>I chose Williams with no regrets then and have had none since. I have a friend at Dartmouth who likes it, but has been dissapointed with her larger-than-advertised class sizes. However, she loves being able to say that she goes to an Ivy and might possibly have been frustrated by the relatively unkown state of Williams among the general public.</p>
<p>Spend overnights at both schools and see which one is right for you. If you're not sure after you get back from visiting, don't apply early decision. It's simple, but that's the answer to your question.</p>
<p>What this thread will ultimately show you:</p>
<p>-The loyalty and the love that students have to their respective schools. Every Williams student will say attend Williams, every Dartmouth Student will say attend Dartmouth. Every Williams student has friends at Dartmouth, every Dartmouth student has friends at Williams.</p>
<p>Both schools will give you an excellent Education.</p>
<p>-Most students have been accepted to both places and will tell you how similiar both schools are</p>
<p>I agree with Calmom that if S has no clear cut choice, maybe your answer should be neither and just apply to both RD. </p>
<p>If you are looking for the "prestige" factor: one is an Ivy and among the top 10 schools in the country, the other is the # LAC in the country. People who are "not in the know" will still give your child the you poor thing look because they may have never heard of these schools and many will mess up on where they are located.</p>
<p>Will applying ED be an advantage? You will have to decide for yourself.</p>
<p>Dartmouth </p>
<p>For the class of 08: </p>
<p>1277 applied ED 384 students admitted = 30%</p>
<p>Freshman class 1081 students</p>
<p>35.5% of the class admitted ED</p>
<p>Williams:</p>
<p>Class of 2008:</p>
<p>559 applied Early 214 admitted = 38.28%</p>
<p>Freshman class 537</p>
<p>39.85% of the freshman class was admitted ED</p>
<p>Phil, My son is a junior at Williams. He never seriously considered Dartmouth because his areas of interest art and art history arent Dartmouths strong suit; however, there IS a great degree of overlap and shared ambience between the two schools. The main points of differentiation are, as others have said, size, presence of graduate students, fraternity system and ivy league status. Three factors that make Williams special are the entry system, Winter Study and the tutorial program. </p>
<p>I havent been to Dartmouth so I dont have a one to one comparison, but for sure Williams is wonderful for the active outdoorsy kid. The physical setting is profoundly beautiful and inspiring you just want to get out there and do something climb a mountain, walk in the woods, play in the snow! In addition to the many organized options offered by the Outing Club, the kids are always getting together informally or hikes, camping trips, bike rides, jogs. Winter Study is a month long winter carnival one fun class plus skiing and snowboarding everyday. The firstyear orientation backpacking trip is a great bonding experience and a wonderful way to kick off the Williams experience.</p>