Williams or Wharton?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
1

<p>Okay, so when it comes down to it I am pretty much deciding between Williams or Wharton (having been accepted to both). I know I will have more fun at Williams, being a more laid back atmosphere in a rural atmosphere, smaller class sizes actually taught by professors, more liberal etc. etc. Wharton on the other hand has amazing career prospects, more opportunities because of its great facilities and more students means more student-related things going on. However, I do not know if I can handle the intensity that is associated with Wharton -- people sabotaging others, people writing 12 page papers where a four pager will do so as to "beat the curve." The intense business classes. However, when I think about it, I will probably be taking the same types of classes in Williams anyways (business classes that is).</p>

<p>To give a little perspective here, my interests are...
International business, with a focus on the more human side of business (working and communicating with other people, etc.) as opposed to number crunching. I am very, very interested in languages and traveling. My main language right now is Spanish, but I'm working on Chinese (and hope to be more fluent in Spanish and become fluent in Chinese) as well as develop moderate proficiency in languages like Italian or Arabic of French (not sure which at this point). I am not as terribly interested in business as I used to be, and don't know if I'm willing to sacrifice my own enjoyment in a career for it. However, I know that I will get great money going to wharton (though I don't care as much about money as I used to).</p>

<p>Anyways, give me some guidance here! I'm pretty lost and this is gonna be a very tough decision for me. I feel like I'll lose something major going to either school over the other.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot,</p>

<p>~ Alex</p>

2

<p>hey alex, you’ll find that many many williams alumni are highly successful in the business/corporate world. a few examples that come to mind are mayo shattuck III, Chairman and CEO of Baltimore-based Constellation Energy and former head of Deutsche Bank Alex. Brown; and bob lipp, senior advisor to jp morgan chase (more on him below); bob scott, former pres of morgan stanley. while you may not be taking very specific finance/business courses at a liberal arts college, williams has one of the strongest alumni networks in the country and alums are always willing to help students find internships and jobs in those fields. as you mentioned yourself, wharton and williams provide very different learning environments and you will be surrounded by and taking classes with very different types of students. if you can, you should visit both schools and sit in on a couple classes and talk to students at both places. hope this is helpful. </p>

<p>on bob lipp, from [JPMorgan</a> Chase: Robert Lipp to join JPMorganChase as Senior Advisor](<a href=“http://■■■■■■/qvpOs]JPMorgan”>http://■■■■■■/qvpOs)
Mr. Lipp was Executive Chairman of the Board of St. Paul Travelers from April, 2004, prior to which he was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of its predecessor company, Travelers Property Casualty Corp. from December, 2001. Mr. Lipp held various senior executive positions at Citigroup and its predecessor companies from 1986, retiring in 2001 as Vice Chairman of Citigroup and Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of its Global Consumer Business. Prior to joining Citigroup, Mr. Lipp spent 23 years with Chemical New York Corporation, a predecessor firm of JPMorganChase.</p>

3

<p>Go to the place where you will be happy.</p>

4

<p>My friend was accepted to UP and had the choice of either going to UP or Wharton. The difference with both is that they grade on a curve. This can be very brutal. If you go to UP, and desire a Wharton MBA, then by all means enroll in Wharton when you have both options.</p>

<p>By the way, my friend had her laptop stolen for the past two years on campus. They had taken out insurance to cover for such transgressions. Consider your interests in safety besides the curving side.</p>

<p>Then again, what do you really want going to college/university?</p>

<p>Know thyself.</p>

<p>Best wishes.</p>

5

<p>thanks thandeka0704 - This is a big factor for me in my decision as well. As much as I hate to admit it, my financial success (measured in terms of how high up I am, my salary, etc.) is very very important to me. I just feel like I worked way too hard in high school to come out with some shoddy career in the end of it all.
Machiavelli12 - Well, see, I think I’d be happy both places probably, for different reasons and at different times. I think if I go to Williams it may be more enjoyable while I’m there, but I think I will end up being more successful at Wharton (just because its wharton). Not to mention I’m sure Williams will have its low points and wharton will have its high points.
Horseradish - Yeah, the curve scares me a lot, to be honest. Like a lot haha, I hate the idea of literally competing against a bunch of overachievers like me. I’m not worried about the safety aspect - I don’t leave my stuff hanging around, especially something like a laptop. I’m sure I’d figure out how to stay safe, not really worried about that.</p>

<p>What do I want in going to a college… well, I want to have a good time, explore my interests, meet people, learn what I want to learn, learn languages, business, about people, etc. I want to be able to go abroad, try new things, be prepared for my future and have the possibility of working hard to get a great job, and an alumni network that helps me do so. I’m sure there’s more that I want, but that’s off the top of my head.</p>

6

<p>I think matriculating into a Ivy-league carries more weight to your portfolio. It is just that everyone is crazy about the Mighty 8 Ivies (Penn being one) and the prestige persons associate with it. I would go to Penn undoubtedly, not that I am saying Williams is by no means Prestigious. But that is just my two cents.</p>

7

<p>AlexE, You sound to me as if you’re not completely convinced that you want to be Gordon Gecko II. </p>

<p>Unless you’ve been living in a cave you will have noticed that Wall Street and the prominent financial institutions are undergoing a seachange: career paths and incomes in 2013 may be very different from what they were pre-September 2008. I don’t mean that working in an investment bank is going to as wholesome and chummy as NPR, but I do think that the heady get-rich-insanely-quick atmosphere is going to be tempered by some cold realism plus some warm humanism.</p>

<p>Do not misunderestimate the prestige and power of a Williams education among the monied classes of New York, Boston and Washington. [Shoddy!? Ha!] This is not the nouveau group. These are influential and connected people. Do you find them at Wharton, absolutely, but it’s a different subset. Williams is classic, somewhat conservative, understated. Wharton is brasher, more risk inclined. </p>

<p>Williams kids are as intense and competitive as the next over-achiever, but they tend to downplay their accomplishments. You don’t get a lot of overt bragging and grade comparisons but kids are very serious about their academics and extracurriculars. I would think that Williams provides more academic support than Wharton, but I may be wrong on this count.</p>

<p>You say that

</p>

<p>If you are sincere about what you wrote, then you should choose Williams over Wharton. You will get a solid liberal arts education with which you will have a myriad of career options. No matter how well you do academically you won’t succeed in a high risk field unless you have the killer instinct. To your credit, it doesn’t sound as you do.</p>

<p>If you decide that you do want to emulate Gordon Gecko afterall there’s always grad school. Your Williams connections will get you into the best.</p>

<p>Now having said all that, to me the biggest factor for you to consider is physical environment. If you want urban, hyperactive choose Wharton. If you want insular, nature choose Williams. They couldn’t be more different and how you feel about your surroundings *will *impact your performance.</p>

8

<p>I agree with you that Penn, especially Wharton is definitely more <em>prestigious.</em> As nice as it is to be respected and to have great confidence in myself going in and saying “I graduated from Wharton,” this really isn’t a huge factor for me. One girl was like to me “you are the only one who got accepted to an ivy league school you should definitely go!” I think she was kind of kidding, but still the fact that its ivy league really doesn’t matter to me that much.</p>

9

<p>momrath, thanks for the really helpful post.</p>

<p>It makes me feel better knowing that a Williams degree will get me far, that’s really important to me. I want to make money, let’s make that clear. As shallow as this may seem, I feel like I’ve worked too hard to come out with a low-average paying career, I want a lot of money. Obviously I don’t need to be a multimillionare investment banker (which I could do if I went to Wharton), but 100k+ sounds pretty dandy to me! Anyways, that’s the superficial side of me out there.</p>

<p>As far as physical environment goes, there are probably about three factors here. Outside environment (off campus), the campus itself, and the facilities the campus offers. Now, as far as off campus goes, Williams wins. I grew up in Vermont. I hated it. Until I began to love it. Now more than in the past, I love nature, being outside, all the things to do outside (longboard, bike, hike, go on walks, swim in natural, clean ponds and rivers and streams, etc.). While the “rural” life is boring, honestly, what is there to do in the city unless you have money? And I’m sure Williams will provide tons of activities (in the form of events, extracurriculars, sports, etc.). As fun as the city seems, when you’re a poor college student, it really isn’t that great. What’s great is being able to go outside and relax on a hillside and look at the stars. Furthermore, Williams is close enough for me to bike back to my house in like 3 hours. It’s about 1-1.5 hours max away from me, Penn is 6. While it seems silly to want to go to Williams because I can come back often and visit my friends… it seems important to me right now.</p>

<p>The campus itself, I can’t really judge. Williams campus I have heard is beautiful. I visited once, but I stayed inside for 95% of the time because it was a gross day (all we did was talk with a guy in like the admission office for like 2 hours and then walk quickly over to the food place and then we left). Penn campus is really really nice though for me, pretty, locust walk is beautiful. This is gonna be a fun one to explore… when I go on college visits again I’m bringing my longboard and seeing the entirety of both campuses.</p>

<p>And for facilities, I really have no idea. I know Penn has a big beautiful stadium, a nice gym, etc. etc. etc. I can’t say much about Williams because I haven’t seen much of their facilities (due to lack of research and the crappy day when we went there). Any guidance on this one?</p>

<p>Thanks again guys.</p>

10

<p>I got accepted to Brown, UPenn, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, and Emory. And I am choosing Williams. There are a lot of people who chose Williams over an Ivy, Williams is extremely prestigious for those who matter. It is a great environment for learning and the natural beauty surrounding the campus is just unmatched by any top school. </p>

<p>You and I have almost the exact same feeling towards nature, I would always chose to relax in the beauty of nature over anything a city can offer. That is one of the main reasons I chose Williams over all the others. </p>

<p>All of your posts scream Williams!</p>

11

<p>Yes, I really agree with Machiavelli.</p>

12

<p>Aside from whether you’d rather be in the Berkshires or Philadelphia (WC Fields is spinning) I think the overarching question is whether you want a liberal arts education or a business degree. Look at few of the most successful and powerful people in business, finance and government today. They followed very individual paths. You need to find your own.</p>

<p>For example,
Tim Geithner: Dartmouth, BA government and Asian studies; JHU MA International Studies
Ken Lewis, Georgia State, BAfinance
Robert Zoellick, Swarthmore BA;Harvard Law and Masters of Public Policy
Vikram Pandit, Columbia BS/MS Engineering; MBA, PhD
Steve Jobs Don’t even ask</p>

<p>I’ve worked in international business for decades and can tell you that people in top positions – corporations, NGOs, government – are very smart and also very well rounded. They have a wide range of interests and world knowledge. I’m not saying that you can’t achieve this level of sophistication with a degree from Wharton. You can, many do. What I’m saying is that a degree from Williams or any other academically sound liberal arts program is equally good.</p>

13

<p>I’m not sure whether or not I want a liberal arts education or business degree. The thing is, I am pretty sure I want to be in a business field, which points at Wharton hands down. Though I think as you said a Williams degree could always get me a great job with a good salary, and if not I can always go to a grad school that could boost my resume to make more money and get a better job in the end. It’s good to know that you can still be super successful coming out of Williams. When I think Wharton, the image of a really affluent businessman comes to mind, that doesn’t really come to mind with Williams but I suppose (hope?) I’m wrong?</p>

14

<p>My dad went to Wharton, loved it, did not go on to grad school, and is now a “really affluent businessman.” At the company he works at, he is in charge of all new hires.</p>

<p>When I was applying to colleges, I really liked Wharton. I thought I wanted to apply ED and go to Wharton. I thought my dad would want me to go to Wharton. Yet after a tour of Williams with my dad, he would not shut up about how fantastic Williams was, and how I just HAD to go to Williams. He brags about Williams even more now that I’m here-I’d mention all the reasons why he thinks it’s a better undergraduate experience, but I’m sure they’re things that you’ve heard before. Just know that one Wharton grad, at least, puts a high value on a Williams education.</p>

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<p>Actually it’d be interesting to hear what he had to say about why Williams was preferable over Wharton, especially since he graduated from Wharton himself.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I don’t entirely understand his clear opinion myself. For all I know (and given his frat experiences that I’ve heard so much about), he may have just wanted me up in the mountains. ;)</p>

<p>But, more seriously, I think it just came down to the fact that most people nowadays end up going to business school anyways, and there is a clear advantage of having a more diverse liberal arts education before getting your MBA. He was (/is) also extremely impressed by the small class sizes at Williams and the unparalleled tutorial system, which (after taking two tutorials myself) I also think is fantastic. Williams is also a surprisingly uncompetitive environment–no one talks about grades here–and I think he found it appropriately amusing when we heard the new Wharton building (Huntsman Hall) described as the “Death Star” on a visit. Plus, people get great jobs right out of school here, and Williams grad school placement is fantastic. I think he also saw an appeal (advantage?) in being part of a small number of business-minded Williams graduates in a class as opposed to being one of many in a class at Wharton. Williams also allows more opportunity to diversify and specialize your interests, since there isn’t really a prescribed “pre-business” path. </p>

<p>Of course, Williams isn’t for everyone; if one of your major concerns is how prestigious Wharton is comparably, it’s probably not for you either. One of the things that makes the Williams environment so great is that people don’t really come here because of the admissions rate, yield, name recognition, etc etc - they’re here because it’s a good fit.</p>

<p>Oh, and I know he loved the Oxford program.</p>

17

<p>Thanks man, a lot of those things definitely make Williams appeal to me a lot. I really think it’s gonna come down to visiting the campuses (I’m making sure to try to spend at least 2 days at both campuses, one for the designated “preview” days and one for my own personal campus tours where I will spend a couple of hours looking around). Shame that I have less than 10 days to decide by the time the preview days are. The oxford program definitely looked nice to me too.</p>

<p>But ultimately you and your dad think they are both good schools, right? I mean, I feel like going to Williams will definitely be good, and Wharton is taking more of a risk because I feel like I might absolutely love it, but it also has the opportunity to be overwhelming with the intensity of everything. I am scared of taking that risk, not to mention Williams is great regardless.</p>

18

<p>Previews will help. Ultimately they’re both excellent schools–yet at the same time, they each have such a different atmosphere and personality that one should clearly be a better fit. Academics aren’t everything, and living in Philly isn’t really comparable to living in Williamstown, just as a school of 9,000 isn’t going to feel the same as a school of 2,200.</p>