<p>xiggi: Why so emotional? Just cool down. I am under no obligation to respond to your hysteria in any manner.
Sorry, but my views just differ from yours. If that is your money that the school is spending, then take it up with them. I think that it is money well invested–but that is just my opinion. Your arguments & comments are to be respected, but we just disagree.</p>
<p>P.S. What you call “skirting the question” I see as an emotional outburst because you didn’t get the answer that you wanted.</p>
<p>I find this discussion fascinating. Do you all get hysterical when the Cleveland symphony makes its budget cuts? Or when the Metropolitan museum closes an extra gallery to save costs? Or even when your local historical society fires its only archivist and moves to a volunteer only staffing model to save money? Or is it just universities who are supposed to consult you all before they decide how to allocate limited resources?</p>
<p>It is interesting to read the reactionary comments in some threads. Lots of emotion. During the last year several posters on a Univ. of Alabama thread were angry that the University of Alabama was awarding merit scholarships to out of state students presumably at the expense of in-state students & taxpayers, yet failing to realize that Alabama’s econmic boom has largely been funded by the results of state tax benefit grants to foreign companies.</p>
<p>This thread reminds me of the often quoted bumpersticker:</p>
<p>“If you think that education is expensive, try ignorance.”</p>
<p>I think Williams isn’t cutting aid to internationals because it’s looking to the future. The college age population in the U.S. will stagnate or decline. Wasn’t the U.S. HS class of 2009 the peak? Who’s going to enroll at all these schools that have made massive investments in facilities? Almost any applicant in the world knows Harvard, but how many know Williams (or any other NESCAC school)? Maintaining need blind for internationals and funding the first few classes helps to establish the Williams name across the globe. They’re priming a well, with the goal of ensuring they remain relevant a generation from now. I don’t think it’s altruistic at all. It’s business.</p>
<p>Gifford, rather than lecturing others about emotions, you might consider reviewing the adjectives you used to address others in the past 10-12 posts! </p>
<p>I am certain that this post will have a calming effect. I would much prefer that the U.S. government award education scholarships to foreign nationals, than to waste money on war. Al Queda & the Taliban are successful in large part because they educate & feed their recruits.</p>
<p>Sorry Xiggi, but I don’t see anything but you wanting to start an argument because my opinion differs from yours. Why not let this die as it isn’t going to produce anything positive. If you don’t get the answer that you want, then you change the question.
Hope you see the pattern!</p>
<p>*I am in favor of granting financial aid to deserving international students. I haven’t heard or read of any scandals involving fraudulent financial aid requests from abroad. Did I miss something?</p>
<p>Many boarding prep schools, colleges & universities recruit abroad. Petty, narrow-mindedness & provincialism is no way to run an institution of higher learning in an increasingly interdependent international world.*</p>
<p>I have NO complaints about private colleges providing aid to low-income int’ls. </p>
<p>However…it is not “narrow minded provincialism” to note that it is quite easy for int’l students from certain countries to hide assets/income. I personally know 4 students who have done so. One claimed to have a family income of less than $50k, while the real income is several times that amount. Two only showed savings accts of limited funds, neglecting to show other accts that had large deposits in them. One didn’t claim owning a second home. It’s also easy for int’ls to hide income property. </p>
<p>The fact that I know 4 such students, means that those aren’t the only ones. These private schools can do whatever they want…and they should be able to. But, the fact remains that it is rather easy for int’ls from some countries to hide money. </p>
<p>I have no idea whether or not it is easy or hard to hide assets & money. But I can see that this thread has gotten way out of hand.
Out of curiosity, how do you know these things about alleged financial aid falsification by international students?</p>
<p>The blarticles are rolling in. This one mentions an interview with Amherst’s president, Anthony Marx, but, doesn’t specify when it occured:[Williams</a> College Ends No-Loan Financial Aid Policy (Update1) - BusinessWeek](<a href=“Businessweek - Bloomberg”>Businessweek - Bloomberg)</p>
<p>*It is interesting to read the reactionary comments in some threads. Lots of emotion. During the last year several posters on a Univ. of Alabama thread were angry that the University of Alabama was awarding merit scholarships to out of state students presumably at the expense of in-state students & taxpayers, yet failing to realize that Alabama’s econmic boom has largely been funded by the results of state tax benefit grants to foreign companies.</p>
<p>This thread reminds me of the often quoted bumpersticker:</p>
<p>“If you think that education is expensive, try ignorance.” *</p>
<p>Oh, please.</p>
<p>Residents from all states go crazy if their state gives scholarships or aid to non-residents. Often it’s due to a lack of understanding of how you spend money to make money (or improve rankings). </p>
<p>Your not-so-subtle southern slam is unfair because it would apply virtually anywhere.</p>
<p>“The idea that financial aid is “necessary” to any family with an annual income of $200,000 is complete, unadulterated garbage. Their children always have the option of attending state schools and if they are Williams material, can probably get substantial merit aid at those schools to boot.”</p>
<p>“Not true. Tell that to a family in NYC or Connecticutt or in Southern California with more than one child in college.”</p>
<ol>
<li><p>No matter where you live in this country, $200,000 per year is affluent by any reasonable standard. It may not seem that way if you live in Greenwich and everyone else is even more affluent, but it is true.</p></li>
<li><p>Sending a child to a private college is a luxury item, plain and simple. While it may be disappointing for a child not to go to such a college, it is not by any means “necessary” that the child attend that college. I will save my sympathy for people who struggle to find the money to send their children to state schools.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>m2ck:
No need to be impolite. You stated a few instances of financial fraud by international students. I asked how you knew that and you wrote that you knew it because you have ESP. I do not see how my accepting your declaration that you have ESP is rude. If you state that you have ESP, then it’s good enough for me.
Did you report them?</p>
<p>P.S. Please note that I am not trying to be impolite or else I might have inquired as to whether or not you reported them to the ESP police.</p>
<p>I agree that it’s too bad colleges in most countries don’t give aid to internationals, but someone has got to start the trend and it’s usually the US that does. The EU countries are opening up their schools to each other. Little by little colleges in all countries will realize the benefits.</p>
<p>The contacts being made at colleges today among kids from all over will result in many alliances in business that will greatly aid in figuring out how we’re going to work as a global economy.</p>
<p>To Post #71:
There is some irony, or maybe hypocrisey, as one poster recently relocated from the west coast to a Southern state & now both sons are getting full rides to a state institution for which they may have not paid any state taxes or very little. Yet, the family accepts free rides to the new state’s flagship university, while upset that internationals get financial aid to a private university.
I have no problem with this family accepting financial aid merit scholarship money from that state university if that is how that state decided to spend its tax dollars. The state sees it as an investment, and so do I.
Hopefully we can agree on this scenario. I just extend this scenario a bit & believe that private institutions have the right to spend & invest their money as their Board of Directors sees fit even if it results in awarding financial to needy, deserving international students.</p>
<p>OMG, I think all this arguing shows that Williams, and other schools, and the Cleveland symphony, and any other institution facing a drastic shortfall, should make their cuts ACROSS THE BOARD as much as possible to (hopefully) forestall philosophical infighting of the most obdurate kind.</p>