Williams vs. Amherst vs. Oberlin vs. Bowdoin

<p>Since many of the students' vehicles sport only all season radials (and not snow tires), they're smart to stay put (at least until the roads are sanded/plowed) -- or take alternate routes if travel is really necessary -- during snowstorms. (I don't believe many of them would be heading east on Rte. 2 [to Amherst?] on the other side of North Adams much anyway.)</p>

<p>I went to Williams. No one from Williams ever leaves campus, when people leave they do not go very often. No one goes to North Adams it is kind of run down.
Amherst has a much better social life than WIlliams. However, Amherst is not as safe as WIlliams and townies have been none to take things.
No one goes to Albany. Williams students do not think very highly of ALbany.</p>

<p>"WilliamsGrad": </p>

<p>Pardon my directness, but I do not believe you are a Williams "grad." (Williams "wannabe"? Or wish you had been? Those are more likely possibilities.) All your comments are not only gross generalizations, they can also be considered to be inflammatory. So please do us all a favor and go back to commenting on the Swarthmore threads -- or to working on your GED.</p>

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I don't think most people ever go to Albany for any reason other than the airport.

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<p>I went twice in the five years I lived in Williamstown. Once to see Mahavishnu Orchestra play at RPI. Once to see Commander Cody and the Lost Planet Airmen play at SUNY-Albany. Generally speaking, Albany was a not a big destination for Ephs, although I'm sure it is a much nicer city than it was back in the day.</p>

<p>I know at least one current Eph who made the short drive to Albany at least four times (none of them for the train station or airport) last semester alone -- to shop and attend concerts. Times have changed.</p>

<p>We once drove down to Westchester County to see a movie. Does that count?</p>

<p>At least these days there are about 20 screens within a twenty minute drive (Spring St. -- adjacent to campus -- as well as North Adams and Lanesboro/ Berkshire Mall) in addition to the movies shown on campus at Paresky and elsewhere.</p>

<p>As the mother of an eph I support onemoremom's view that these opportunities are readily available. However, in my son's case, he is content to spend most of his time on campus with friends. That's why he picked Williams. The entry system and friendship is his social life. Might not sound exciting to some, but he and his friends seem very content.</p>

<p>An exciting activity for him is spending an hour at the music building practicing a Bach partita and then coming back to dorm and having friends there to snack and hang out with. Not everyone's Sat. night I know, but the only way for him to keep up with his instrument. At a more hopping campus there'd be no one waiting for him. At Williams there always it.</p>

<p>Drinking? Yup, there is. My eph doesn't drink and has plenty of friends. Goes to parties or doesn't. Sometimes is the "daddy" at parties, looking after friends, and believe it or not, he likes that too,and is now thinking of EMT training.</p>

<p>If you want a lively club, going out scene, I think there's no arguing that Williams is probably not the right place. My D is at Barnard and there is no more lively place in the world than NYC, and she says the campus life does suffer.</p>

<p>Maybe there is a perfect medium, like Amherst, I don't know.</p>

<p>I do know that for the right person Williams is the perfect place. It offers just what my S wanted, and he was self aware enough to see that. Turned down Amherst, Brown, UChi so if he'd wanted more to do, he could have found it. He wanted the friendship and EC opportunities of Williams and he has not be disappointed.</p>

<p>D wanted NYC and has not been disappointed.</p>

<p>Choose well for you.</p>

<p>Jeke's and mythmom's comments should be heeded. I'll venture into the war zone to offer another (? less biased ?) perspective.</p>

<p>Williams has a vivacious campus life that happily dominates students' free time. There are reasons to occasionally venture off campus, but my take on the surrounding area is a tad different from what you've seen posted.</p>

<p>Albany offers the Pepsi Center for big name brand concerts - probably the main reason to travel the hour from Williamstown. The city is less run down than it once was and has a brighter future (I repeat, future) with the major high tech recruitment that is currently underway. SUNY Albany students would be the first to agree that this is still no "lovely, green city on the Hudson River." Even the state mall is an architecturally hulking eyesore. The immediate surrounding blocks, primarily serving part time legislators and lobbyists, offer the only real "town" worth briefly exploring.</p>

<p>Troy has been in sad decline for decades with little farther possible to fall - "an old industrial city, not unlike many such towns you'll see throughout New England and the Mid-Atlantic region" - sad, but true. </p>

<p>Bennington is a charming small town and a popular stop when leaf viewing in the fall. Its gift shops are certainly no student's idea of a destination on a Saturday night but a very nice respite for visiting parents. Bennington College, a great, truly alternative school, has all of about 700 students - little in the way of "mingling" opportunities.</p>

<p>I personally really enjoy stops at Mass MOCA and don't find North Adams run down. But, again, it's hard to see the town's appeal to students unless art is your thing. If that is the case, it's a great contemporary addition to the local (and extensive) Williamstown offerings.</p>

<p>Pittsfield has been losing population for decades but has avoided the precipitous decline of Troy. No mention yet of the Berkshire Museum here with some worthwhile early American art. It's fallen on hard times (mirroring the town) but is currently being renovated. Still, a nice additional resource for art students. Certainly, again, no Saturday night destination.</p>

<p>Long/short: Williams is strongly campus-centric with a host of offerings socially. While it is not surrounded by a desert, it feels pretty isolated. Therein lies a great strength (student body cohesion and school spirit).<br>
As mythmom says, "for the right person Williams is the perfect place."
But not everyone will be the right person. This is definitely not a one size fits all kind of place.</p>

<p>Probably most people who are choosing between Williams and other LAC's choose other LAC's because of location and/or perceived social climate. I think there is some truth to those who claim that Williamstown is isolated, and there is some truth to those who say that it's a drinker's/athlete's paradise. But a smart person recognizes that these are generalizations and that getting a fuller picture requires talking to people about their individual experience at Williams and trusting your gut instinct.</p>

<p>One perspective that I will share is that when I went to Williams I was so busy with classwork, hanging with friends, attending talks, lectures and concerts (which I loved, by the way), and being involved in extracurricular activities - that I didn't have time to get off campus as much as I would have liked. Sure, there were times when I felt bored or depressed (especially in the dead of winter) and when the town and campus felt empty. But oddly enough I have felt equally bored or depressed at times since living in cities with every conceivable distraction around me. I suppose that people who are gloomy can be gloomy anywhere.</p>

<p>By and large, in my experience each semester at Williams had a rhythm to it and was filled with so much going on socially and academically that the time flew and lo and behold you were taking exams or writing final papers again. A student who cares about his/her learning, friends and interests will be pretty engaged at Williams. </p>

<p>Another perspective I will share is this: remember, you have (with any luck) many decades of life post-Williams (and even during Williams) to live in lots of places. During my junior year abroad I lived in Tokyo. After Williams, I have lived in New York City, San Francisco, and Washington, DC. I went to grad school in Boston where I got to be a student all over again in a city. So if my choice at age 17 was to spend my whole life in a small town in western Massachusetts I might have balked. But in hindsight I think it was a pretty good decision. I happen to be in touch with more Williams friends, who are now a bunch of thirtysomething professors, writers, teachers, lawyers, doctors, parents and assorted other sundry characters, than I am with friends from other periods during my life. And this is coming from someone who didn't feel all that socially connected at Williams. So what does that say? I don't know. I probably wouldn't live in Williamstown now (although if you gave me a cute vacation house in the Berkshires I would not turn it down), but I'm glad I did then.</p>

<p>I think I started this whole thing by observing that I disagreed w/ one poster's observation that Williams and Amherst were equally isolated. I caught up in squabbling over whether Williams is isolated or not. </p>

<p>I don't think geographic isolation is a bad thing for a liberal arts college. I went college in Middlebury, VT, which I would characterize as every bit as isolated as Williamstown. (Hard to get to, not much nearby etc.) The result is a very campus focused experience. And in my view, that's the essence of a good college experience. So I'm a big "small liberal arts college in the woods" proponent and Williams is the prototype. It is an awesome place for students seeking that. Not all do though.</p>

<p>'Middlebury, VT, which I would characterize as every bit as isolated as Williamstown. (Hard to get to, not much nearby etc.)"</p>

<p>Middlebury, VT is much more isolated, with much less nearby, than even Williamstown, which is less than an hour from the international airport at Albany (IMHO). And yes, I've been to both. Middlebury does have much more snow than Williamstown, though, and is definitely "remote" -- the feeling is that you're really in the boonies. At least in Williamstown, more trappings of civilization are nearby and readily accessible.</p>

<p>onemoremom: We get it. You do not feel that Williams is isolated. I feel that you are overstating the case and should just let the matter drop without putting down other schools and using arguments that involve Albany's international (who knew!) airport.</p>

<p>My own view, as an alum and frequent visitor and parent of a prospective, is that sometimes Williams feels like it is isolated but that most often it does not. It has nothing to do with the proximity of Albany or chain movie theaters, but on what is going on on campus, what one's friends are up to, how much work one has and the weather. And an advantage of Williams is that there is generally a lot going on and when there is not and you need to get away-to NY or Boston or to another college-it is fairly easy to do.</p>

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Middlebury, VT is much more isolated, with much less nearby, than even Williamstown, which is less than an hour from the international airport at Albany (IMHO). And yes, I've been to both. Middlebury does have much more snow than Williamstown, though, and is definitely "remote" -- the feeling is that you're really in the boonies. At least in Williamstown, more trappings of civilization are nearby and readily accessible.

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<p>This has been discussed over and over on these boards. Middlebury is no less or more "remote" than Williams. Williams is less than an hour from Albany airport, and Middlebury is 50 minutes from Burlington International Airport. I don't know about you, but I'd much rather spend a day shopping or out on the town in Burlington (rated one of the best college towns in the country) than Albany, NY. But maybe that's just me. And what "trappings of civilization" surround Williamstown that can't be found near Middlebury? Taco Bell and Starbucks? Give me a break.</p>

<p>One thing Middlebury is much closer to is the East's best skiing, snowboarding, hiking, fishing, and camping spots.</p>

<p>Also, according to weather.com, Middlebury is, on average, 1 degree warmer than Williamstown, and doesn't get as much precipitation (in any month of the year).</p>

<p>Climatology</a> Comparison for Williamstown, MA (01267) - weather.com</p>

<p>Oh dear.</p>

<p>Williams' mom here. Yes, Williamstown is isolated. My S wouldn't have it any other way. He's happy as a clam there.</p>

<p>Apologies to Midkids. A great school.</p>

<p>"onemoremom: We get it... I feel that you are overstating the case and should just let the matter drop without putting down other schools and using arguments that involve Albany's international (who knew!) airport."</p>

<p>My, my -- a bit testy, are we? I will continue to post my opinions as I see fit -- just like the thousands of others who do so here at CC on a daily basis. And I have every right to use whatever points of reference I choose (as do all other posters). My opinion was not meant as a "put down" of any particular college -- simply a reporting of my impressions of the areas I've visited. But of course you're welcome to post as many ad hominems as you'd like.</p>

<p>"And what 'trappings of civilization' surround Williamstown that can't be found near Middlebury? ... Give me a break"."</p>

<p>"This has [also] been discussed over and over on these boards."</p>

<p>2006 US Census Bureau estimated Berkshire County, MA population: 131,117</p>

<p>Estimated Addison County, VT population: 35,974 (2006 US Census Bureau estimated Vermont population 623,908)</p>

<p>Middlebury, VT is 100 miles (two hours' drive) north of Williamstown, MA.</p>

<p>ad hominem? A bit testy? Yes, when I see people making comments that reflect poorly on my alma mater and the students there now. </p>

<p>But you are correct, obviously, that you have every right to post your opinions as you see fit. I was just suggesting an end to the putdowns by posters of other fine schools. Alas, to no avail.</p>

<p>I think that for many, a self-contained campus life is enough. However, less isolated elite LAC choices include Swarthmore (bucolic campus, yet close to Philadelphia and about 2 hours from New York) and Pomona (ditto LA).</p>

<p>Williams or Amherst are top 10 in the country, both extraordinary. If you get into either you are very fortunate in this most competitive year. No school location is perfect (well maybe Stanford or Pepperdine). Have you ever been to New Haven? or parts of Phili? Does not seem to stop people from going to Yale or U Penn. Oberlin and Bowdoin are excellent schools.</p>