<p>Hi. I am a international student who does not know much about all those LACs. So is there anyone who is so kind to enlighten me on this matter. what's the difference between Williams and Amherst? If possible, tell me also what's the difference between Swarthmore and Haverford please. Thanks a lot.</p>
<p>Location (urban to rural):
Swarthmore/Haverford
Amherst
Williams</p>
<p>Size (largest to smallest:
Williams
Amherst
Swarthmore
Haverford</p>
<p>Per student endowment:
Swarthmore
Williams/Amherst</p>
<p>Haverford</p>
<p>Future PhDs:
Swarthmore
Haverford
Amherst
Williams</p>
<p>Future investment bankers:
Amherst/Williams
Swarthmore/Haverford</p>
<p>Diversity:</p>
<p>Swarthmore
Amherst
Williams
Haverford</p>
<p>Sports
Williams
Amherst</p>
<p>Haverford
Swarthmore</p>
<p>Academic intensity/difficulty (on average):</p>
<p>Swarthmore
Haverford/Amherst/Williams</p>
<p>note: they are ALL really great academic schools for an engaged student</p>
<p>Political, social activism, etc:</p>
<p>Swarthmore
Haverford
Amherst
Williams</p>
<p>Party scene/drinking:
Williams
Amherst
Haverford
Swarthmore</p>
<p>Ease of transportation from Singapore and getting around without a car:
Swarthmore/Haverford</p>
<p>Amherst
Williams</p>
<p>Other:</p>
<p>Williams is especially strong in art history and music; languages are not a strength. Swarthmore offers engineering and is incredibly strong in social sciences (econ/poli sci); languages are OK. Amherst is noted for its government/pre-law/history/English. I'm not sure what Haverford's specialty would be, although its solid in sciences.</p>
<p>They are all superb colleges. Anyone would be lucky to attend any of them. If you were lucky enough to have multiple choices among this group, you'd probably have to tell us more about you and what you are looking for in order to recommend any one of them over another. They are pretty much equal, but Williams would be better for one student, Haverford for another, etc. depending on your interests and priorities. There's a fairly large group of students who would be happy at any of the four, so we are talking differences in how each school "tilts", not black and white exclusive diffferences.</p>
<p>hmmmm...i wonder how people comes up with the conclusion that Swarthmore is more difficult/intense academically than Williams. Williams is mad intense, but people seems to have a 'suck it up and dont whine about studying all the time' mentality. Because really, the three major things we do in Williams are -
-Study, Study, Study
-Practice/workout
-drink/try to get laid (on Friday nights)</p>
<p>Not to be mean, Eph10, but I'm not sure if you're speaking for yourself or a percentage of the student populations when you mention "the three major things we do". It's certainly not representative of the student body, and for me, it surely is a different story.
But I agree that Williams is academically intense. The sciences here are pretty solid and demanding, in fact, every field is. At first, the workload seemed much more than I was also expecting, but I've come to enjoy it immensely. </p>
<p>In terms of differences between Williams and Amherst, what most readily comes to mind is location. Amherst College is 20 minutes on foot from the college town, which is about 4 times larger and more vibrant than Williamstown.</p>
<p>Unlike Williams, Amherst allows you to take more than one class in the same subject, same semester during your first year, but that's not a big deal for most people, I think. </p>
<p>In may ways, Williams and Amherst are alike - they're brother colleges, but from popular opinion, Williams has better food than Amherst does.</p>
<p>While officially, Wiliams and Amherst are fratless, Swat still has frats, so I don't see how the party scene at Williams could be worse than that at Swat.</p>
<p>Swarthmore has two non-residential fraternities with about 6% of the male students as members (about 50). Basically, they are the lacrosse team, the baseball team, an the basketball team.</p>
<p>I believe Amherst currently has a half dozen frats. Williams' sports teams serve the same function as frats.</p>
<p>There are signficant differences in the so-called binge drinking rates (the measure of drinking that is used by colleges nationally in their student life surveys). There are also significant differences in alcohol poisoning hospitalizations.</p>
<p>mira, Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore have a lot of similarities in level of education and type of student who attends. All have excellent track records for getting their graduates into graduate schools and professional programs. Haverford is similar but maybe one notch down in intensity. </p>
<p>Their actual physical environments are somewhat different however -- Williams is located in a pristine mountain village and consequently it's quite self contained. Amherst is in a small town and is part of a larger consortium of colleges. Swarthmore and Haverford are both on the outskirts of Philadelphia -- a large urban center. If you have a chance to visit you'd get a better idea of what best suits you.</p>
<p>Are you an American living in Singapore or a Singapore national? All of these schools regularly admit both American Expats and true internationals but the selectivity and financial aid varies depending on your status.</p>
<p>Hi, guys. Thanks a lot. You are really so informative and accomodating. I am a Chinese student doing A-level in Singapore. And I will be applying to American unis this winter. I prefer LACs than Unis because I think LACs focus more on teaching rather than researching. So I will try a few Ivy but definitely I will apply ED to either Williams or Amherst. That's why I post this message here for some advices.</p>
<p>Do you know anything about applying for Financial Aid. From what you said, I think that Amherst is better in terms of location but its admission people say that they only give 25 internationals full financial aid(partially aid, donot know). On the other hand, Williams is need-blind for internationals but it's location is like Cornell (right?) far from civilization. So it is kind of tough to choose one.</p>
<p>By the way, I want to study either humanities or social sciences. Or engineering. No natural sciences, no. Although I am a science student now, I don't want to suffer more in college. So just bombard me with information and advices, I am lost now. :-) </p>
<p>P.S. Special thanks to interesteddad, your ranking is... I dont know what to say. How did you do that?</p>
<p>Another thing is I want to learn foreign languages (languages other than Chinese and English) by myself. I do have opportunities to ask for helps, if any, in any of these colleges, right? :-P</p>
<p>Generally Amherst and Williams will satisfy your need. Need varies, hence, the 25%. Yes, travel out of Wiliamstown is quite expensive/inconvenient. The easiest way to get out is to take a bus/cab to the nearest train station - 2.5hrs [Springfield], or airport at Albany.</p>
<p>I'm not sure about the arts/social sciences at Amherst, but they are surely good in their own right. Really strong at Williams, too. And if you're thinking Asian studies major, the dept here is well funded with numerous opportunities for study abroad, and that sort of thing.
Amherst has a soild neuroscience dept, though, in case you change your mind. </p>
<p>Besides if you might do engineering for grad school, you'll probably major in physics/chemistry or math. Williams has one of the toughest physics programs around, but it's quite fun.</p>
<p>I met a student from Singapore sometime ago, a rising junior. He performed [solo guitar] with the Amherst jazz ensemble during the Williamstown Jazz Festival. You might want to get in touch with him to find out what his experience at Amherst has been. If you contact the Williams admissions office, they will gladly put you in touch with students from Singapore, who will be ready to answer your questions, too.</p>
<p>I chose to apply to Williams over Amherst. There was no point applying to both; besides I didn't like Amherst, and I thought I was less likely to get in, since it's more popular. Moreover, their physics dept page wasn't as convincing as Williams'. But you could apply to both if you have space.</p>
<p>miracle, financial aid to internationals is about the same at Amherst and Williams. In both cases, however, the number of internationals admitted is limited so there's no guarantee. They are both highly selective (as is Swarthmore) so I'd suggest applying to several. You might also try some of the less selective LACs like Macalester and Grinnell. Smith if you are female.</p>
<p>Are you a Chinese national or a Singapore national? Not that it matters as Williams has a history of admitting students from both countries, but it may affect how they perceive your need and how they perceive that you will contribute to the campus community.</p>
<p>I haven't visited Cornell, but yes, Williams is in an isolated country location. The location is very beautiful and the insularity leads to an increased sense of community, but it's not for everyone. There is limited transportation to Williamstown from New York and Boston airports, but it's difficult to count on it. Many, many Williams students have the same logistical difficulties and manage to overcome them but it certainly more difficult than getting to an urban campus would be.</p>
<p>Will you be able to visit if you are accepted? Has anyone from your school attended Williams or any other LAC?</p>
<p>You will get an excellent education in humanities,social sciences and science at any of the top liberal arts colleges. All have language departments though the depth and breadth may vary. Engineering programs are limited at LACs, so if you think this may be an option for you, you'll need to research further.</p>
<p>
[quote]
financial aid to internationals is about the same at Amherst and Williams.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Momrath:</p>
<p>I believe that Williams spends more (total and as a percentage of aid budget) on financial aid discounts to internationals than Amherst or Swarthmore. This is why Williams' percentage of internationals has increased in the last few years.</p>
<p>I don't think this impacts the odds of an individual international student being accepted or receiving aid (or certainly not in a predictable way). However, it does have an impact on overall international enrollments as does adveratising "need-blind" admissions.</p>
<p>The increased international aid discounting at Williams is a recent change (in the last few years), the result of a specific priority of increasing international enrollment which had been lagging slightly behind its direct competition (the location is an obstacle). The increased international aid is also the result of a specific endowment gift (might have been the Bronfmans, I can't remember).</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, the size of international enrollments at elite US colleges is directly proportional to aid budgets. In other words, a college can enroll 2% internationals, 4%, 6%, 8% or whatever simply by increasing or decreasing financial aid.</p>
<p>At Williams, the percentage of internationals receiving aid is much higher than the percentage of US students (like double). At Swarthmore, the percentage is about the same for both groups (just slightly higher for internationals). I haven't looked at Amherst's numbers that closely.</p>
<p>"the nearest train station - 2.5hrs [Springfield], or airport at Albany"</p>
<p>Actually, there are both a train station and international airport in Albany, about 40 miles east of Williamstown.</p>
<p>OMG It's a Singaporean!</p>
<p>Ok guys sorry to interrupt but miraclezh have you considered Pomona College? </p>
<p>Sorry to post this on Williams College forum but I just went berzerk when I saw a Singaporean, considering LACs no less =p</p>
<p>The Chinese dept here at Williams is well-funded, as I said earlier, and there are many opportunities for study abroad. The professors are wonderful from what I've heard. I don't know about Amherst's...</p>
<p>interesteddad, statistics help, but sometimes they don't give the full story or even account for individual stories. It could be that there are fewer international students who need aid at Amherst than at Williams. Because, surely if they are attending Amherst without aid, then they can pay for it.</p>
<p>Amherst > Williams</p>
<p>
[quote]
It could be that there are fewer international students who need aid at Amherst than at Williams.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That is almost certainly the case. Amherst, Swarthmore, and Williams all have between 6% and 7% international students.</p>
<p>International enrollment at Williams and Amherst was fairly static until 1994, increasing at both schools from 2% in 1976 to 3% in 1994. Over the last decade, it has increased sharply, hitting 6% by 2004. </p>
<p>Swarthmore hit 5% in 1984 and gradually increased to 6% by 2000. I don't know that Swarthmore's international enrollment will continue to increase beyond 6%; their international aid budget is capped at a percentage of the total aid budget by provision of an endowment bequest eons ago. They would have to go to court to change that provision. To date, it hasn't hampered their ability to enroll the number of internationals they want. Yield for internationals is about the same as the overall yield.</p>
<p>And again, that's also plausible since Amherst is more popular than Williams. Even the name "Amherst" sounds somewhat more prestigious than the generic-sounding and -looking "Williams" on the surface.
Traditionally, it has been the richest /most privileged international students attending top LACs, but that's changing now.</p>
<p>There is a Indian tribe here challenging a local developer who has named a new development "Amherst Commons". They likened it to calling a condo development "Bin Laden Mews".</p>
<p>"there are both a train station and international airport in Albany, about 40 miles east of Williamstown"</p>
<p>Sorry -- that should have said "west." Williamstown is east of Albany.</p>
<p>Pomona? I have heard of it before. It is in CA right? Other people tell me that colleges in westcoast are more American but those in the eastcoast are more international. So I think I shall just keep my mind open for now. </p>
<p>As to Williams and Amherst, hope you guys can give me more insiders' stories, like what are their cultures, their politics, their codes, their whatever you can think of. And something else which a international will never know, such as use of drugs, safety etc. My mother will never allow me to go to Uchicago or Upenn or even Yale because she says those place are dangerous, especially for a foreigner. </p>
<p>And do you think ED really help? I know a lot of people just put Williams or Amherst as one of their many choices in RD. So if I apply ED to either of the two, I hope I can get the offer. :-)</p>