Williams vs Columbia

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
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<p>My DD was lucky enough to be admitted to both Williams and Columbia. Now the tough part--choosing. She is thinking that Williams may be the right choice for her. She is attracted by Williams' focus on undergrads. She will probably major in bio or neuroscience (though not pre-med). But she's not very familiar with Williams--doesn't know any kids from her school who went there and she's the only admit from her school this year. I think she is having a little trouble getting past Columbia's Ivy League prestige factor. She hears from a lot of people who push the Ivies over the LACs. </p>

<p>I'd love to hear from Williams students/grads/parents about their experience. Do you really get great attention from profs? Is the acclaimed Williams alumni network as loyal and helpful as it sounds? I think she feels she could be happy in either location, so the urban vs rural thing is not a big factor for her. Thanks for any input.</p>

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<p>Nostrandmom, I’m the parent of a Williams graduate. In answer to your questions, YES! and YES! Even though my son is five years out of Williams and holds an Ivy League graduate degree, he’s still close to his Williams profs. The alumni/ae network – which he and his friends are now part of – is an amazing resource. </p>

<p>Williams will never have the name recognition of Columbia – something that anyone who chooses Williams will have to accept – but the quality of education, the relationships with professors and the intellect and talent of the students are all remarkable.</p>

<p>I would note, however, that the physical environment of the two schools couldn’t be more different. An urban campus in New York City no less, vs a bucolic mountain village. Prestige aside, your daughter might want to think more about which better suits her. Also, Columbia’s core is quite different from Williams’ loose distribution requirements.</p>

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<p>I have a kid at each. Please PM with any specific questions you might have. Each kid was enchanted with his/her school, and neither would have switched with each other at any point. Point are in grad school pursuing studies that each would not have discovered if he/she had attended the other’s school; at least that’s the way it look in hindsight.</p>

<p>Please PM with your specific questions.</p>

<p>I will say that Williams education was more rigorous and more creative, while Columbia/Barnard’s education is more academic.</p>

<p>I can explain more in a PM when I know what information might help you.</p>

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<p>Also – you can always live in NYC after one graduates–but you can never have the residential college experience again.</p>

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<p>@mythmom OP doesn’t have enough posts to PM you.</p>

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<p>It certainly sounds as though a Williams education is something special. And no doubt Columbia would be amazing too, though in a very different way. I think DD would do better at a smaller school, so I will be pushing for Williams. The good new is that by May 1 she will have made her decision. Though I posted for the first time yesterday, I have been following CC forums for a few years (this is DD2)–thanks to everyone for the advice. I think DD knows how lucky she is to have such a tough decision to make. Not sure what the Williams cheer is–Go Ephs? ;-)</p>

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<p>Well, it sounds like you have made your decision, now it is just the time for your DD to.</p>

<p>Columbia is very, very much about being in NYC. Wiliams is very much about being in the mountains. On a free Saturday, my DD would take the subway to Columbus Circle and just hang out in the Barnes and Noble in the shopping mall there. Once she say Jennifer Garner and Ben Affleck with their two daughters (now they have three kids) in strollers – no nannies – looking at children’s books. She said she was cute, but he was beatific. New Yorkers no bother celebrities so she didn’t go up to them.</p>

<p>She would also walk through the park to go to the Met.</p>

<p>She loved to go to Dinosaur Cafe for BBQ in Harlem.</p>

<p>And one class took her to Broadway (paid by school.) They were sent all over the city when they began school. And DS loved his canoeing WOOLF trip. </p>

<p>DS’s favorite Saturday was taking a long walk in Hopkins Forest. He performed in three Shakespeare plays. He played in the orchestra. He climbed Jimmeny Peak with the environmental club. He loved Mountain Day. And he not only went to the Clark (art museum if you haven’t hung out in W’town), he worked there. He loved going so much he actually got a job there.</p>

<p>The entry system is a very strong aspect of Williams and tries (and very often succeeds) to ensure that every frosh has a social life and a support system.</p>

<p>My S also enjoyed having a single from frosh year on – it saved a lot of drama. OTOH, D loved her roommate. At Williams, you have a choice.</p>

<p>I should say that there are many small classes at Columbia (D went to hear oral arguments at the Supreme Court with one), and many Columbians take lots of classes at Barnard, which is a postage size campus (four acres) that is very personalized.</p>

<p>Both got great educations, are true intellectuals, and are succeeding very well in grad school.</p>

<p>My D had to write many long papers, so she was more prepared to do that, whereas my S emerged a more creative thinker with a greater ability to think across the disciplines that was encouraged by Williams. Both got the educations that better suited their characters.</p>

<p>To my mind it really is a question of whether your D wants to be a city mouse or a country mouse.</p>

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<p>your original two questions, (1) yes and (2) yes.</p>

<p>Your daughter can’t go wrong. If she is worried about prestige, show her the Wall Street Journal rankings (sadly, now a bit dated) which have Williams outperforming Columbia in terms of admissions to top five MBA, JD and MD programs. Or show her the Forbes rankings from the past three years, where Williams has ranked 1, 1, and 2, well over Columbia. For any grad school or fellowship she is interested in pursuing, and for the vast majority of jobs she would want, there is no material difference in terms of prestige. Anyone who focusing their recruiting on top-tier schools knows Williams as well as Columbia. And I’m sorry, anyone who unilaterally pushes the Ivies for ALL students over the likes of Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore has no business giving college advice, and should not be taken seriously. Williams is without any doubt for some students a better experience than any Ivy would be. For others, a place like Columbia would be far better, but it’s all about fit. </p>

<p>It really is a question of where she will be happier, and it seems like that should be pretty easy to figure out given the dramatic differences in curriculum (regimented core vs. very loose requirements and tutorials), student body size, type of institution, and of course, more importantly, setting. Her concern should only be, at this point, which environment she believes that she would thrive in.</p>

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<p>As your daughter looks at Columbia, she needs to just be very clear that the core is for her, because if not, then there is no question about which school. My S loved his look at Columbia, but knew that there was no way he wanted to be forced into the core, he is very interested in a lot of things, but likes to be able to be the master of his education. He also decided that he wanted an undergraduate LAC experience. He will look at Ivies and research schools for his graduate degree.</p>

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<p>There is something to be said for the core. When everyone has the same foundation, the discourse is more sophisticated.</p>

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<p>I have mixed feelings about the core. If one truly believes in the core then perhaps St John’s College may be the way to go as it is four years of the core–and the kids there are amazing, terrific and the most intellectual I have ever met. </p>

<p>I guess, however, at the end of the day I line up with James Conant rather than with Mortimer Adler.</p>

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<p>DD has mixed feelings about the core: thinks it develops a great foundation for your intellectual life, but worried that it will leave her scrambling to fulfill requirements while pursuing what she expects to be a challenging major. She will definitely visit both schools–I know which way I’m leaning, but she will have to make up her own mind. </p>

<p>That said, Columbia is quite a bit more expensive than Williams. And I’m guessing that Columbia students end up spending more money during the school year since there are so many things to do outside the college? We’re not going to force her to choose based on the cost, but wow! Over 4 years it adds up :/</p>

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<p>There is a lot that’s free in NYC. I don’t really think that D spent more than S except for the metro card, which was well worth it. Upper West Side noodle shops etc. are actually less expensive than W’town restaurants.</p>

<p>My S, who adored Williams, didn’t apply to Columbia. </p>

<p>I don’t think this calls for a rational decision; a gut reaction would probably be better in this case. Let us know what she decides.</p>

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<p>I’m not nuts about the Columbia core (I think by far the best core is at Scripps), and I think Williams’ distribution requirements are SO high school. </p>

<p>I am so surprised that the urban/rural thing is not a big deal. Williams is SO rural; Columbia is SO urban. (Mythmom’s point about the cost of restaurants is very well-taken.)</p>

<p>I think the visits will tell.</p>