I have to pay the same amount at both schools, and I have no idea of how to pick. I love both, and I don’t know enough cons for both these places to be able to pick between the two. I want to major in the sciences (Bio/Chem), and I just want a small school with nice people. I really have no other requirements, which is why it’s making it so hard to pick. I know the location of the 2 schools is extremely different, but I am honestly fine with both locations. I am the type of person who is fine living in isolated areas and never visiting the city, but if I have the chance, I will visit the city as much as I want. I honestly don’t care about location, so I just want to know if there are other huge differences between the two schools that I should know about? anything else to differentiate between the 2?
I know Williams is always listed as #1 for the best LAC (in some rankings) - why is that? Is that true? Is it a better school than Swarthmore? Is it more prestigious? Is Swarthmore easier than Williams or vice versa (what school has a higher average GPA, etc)?
Both are great schools. Both have things that make them special. Have you visited? Which feels like a better fit?
Williams has Oxford-style tutorials. Swarthmore has an honors thesis program with invited scholars and is part of a consortium with U Penn, Bryn Mawr and Haverford.
Which resonates more with you? Forget the rankings and GPA…they’re both great schools and you can’t go wrong with either.
@LoveTheBard I have visited both, and I wasn’t able to really feel a big difference. I liked both almost the same amount. Is there a difference between the social atmosphere/type of students?
Have you visited them since you have been accepted? That would be helpful.
To me, these schools have very different vibes. Swat seemed to me like a school for a very particular kind of kid, and if you are not that type it may not be for you. Williams seemed to attract a broader array of kids. Williams more sporty, more team sports, and non athletes also seemed to enjoy using the fitness facilities as well as doing outdoorsy activities. Williams very strong in humanities and art history, Swat may get the edge in a Stem. Swat technically does not compute gpa, though the tour guide said of course kids compute it on their own. Socially, Swat seemed like students are perfectly fine to spend weekends inside studying. There was an intensity there, I have not experienced on other visits. I felt Williams was a more well rounded place, but if you fit in the Swat peg, then it could be a great place with a great location and very interesting honors program.
Yes, my understanding is the Swat is more studious and less social. "Swat seemed like students are perfectly fine to spend weekends inside studying. " Agree.
Williams is more diverse from an academic and social perspective.
I really encourage you to take advantage of visits (admitted students’ days) rather than on the opinions of people with vested interest in dissing Swat (just look at screen names). I have a son at Swat and I assure you, the kids have fun there. It is a pretty intense intellectual vibe, and kids love their “work,” but I somehow doubt Williams kids are less intellectual.
Williams recently has had a 1 percentage point higher 4y graduation rate. Why? Who knows?
In 2013 (or the preceding year) the Williams PA and GC scores were both 1/10th point higher than the Swarthmore scores. Why? Again, who knows? Perhaps the Peers and GCs are influenced by each previous year’s ranking (so the scores are in a continuous feed-back loop).
To me, the location differences would be much more significant than these statistical differences.
Other more significant differences IMO would be the advantages of Swarthmore’s consortium relationships, or of the Williams tutorial system, or in the social/intellectual atmosphere. However, it would be easy to make too much (or too little) of any of these differences if you base your judgements on anyone’s opinion but your own. Flip a coin if you have to.
In terms of both prestige and academic quality, there is no real difference between the big 4 LACs: Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona. Go where you feel like you would be happiest.
I agree with @ThankYouforHelp … go wherever you feel you’ll be happier. If that doesn’t help decided, imagine where would your current friends be happier?
I completely understand your willingness to enjoy which ever environment you’re in, but there are certain options (which you can’t know until they are presented to you), that each has over the other. If you might want to go skiing, or you want to go to the beach on a warm day, or you want to see a concert, or go for a hike without anyone around…all of those things will or will not present themselves based on your decision. That includes coursework. Beyond the obvious options of the Swat consortium’s, there are individual class opportunities in the region. This is a class that you can’t really do at Williams…based on the 4 or 5 museum field trips. http://catalog.swarthmore.edu/preview_course.php?catoid=7&coid=53054. I would guess Williams would offer similar opportunities for other classes.
Good luck with your choice…embrace it and don’t look back!
Yes. Williams students are more athletically oriented than Swarthmore students. Last year, for example, Williams was ranked as the #1 school (out of 324) for overall performance in NCAA Division III. In fact, Williams has ranked #1 in Division III for 19 of the past 21 years. The annual Williams-Amherst football game is famous as one of the oldest and most intense small-college athletic rivalries.
For comparison, Swarthmore is not known as a particularly athletic school. They ranked #118 in Division III last year. Don’t expect to go to any football games; Swat doesn’t have a team.
This doesn’t mean that you have to be a varsity athlete to have a great experience at Williams. However, you should expect that athletics will be important to many of your classmates. Some people might suggest that the prominence of athletics at Williams may in part reflect the lack of other things to do in Williamstown, which is very small and isolated.
Another point to note is that college athletes in general have a reputation for partying and drinking. You are probably more likely to find these activities at Williams than at Swarthmore. Swarthmore is the kind of place where “too much drinking” might refer to coffee.
@preppedparent Midd is a truly great school. So are Wellesley, Bowdoin, and Carleton. Those four would be my second tier. Amherst, Williams, Pomona and Swat are a slight step up mostly because of history: they just have a ridiculous amount of money per student and a level of career/grad school placement that is on the level of the top Ivies.
@Corbett -
I think a lot of that athletes/drinking thing is a stereotype. Sure athletes may have a certain swagger, but if you have a football game or track meet on a Saturday, there’s not going to be any partying on a Friday night. And when you have 6am crew practices during the week, not much drinking on weeknights. Plus many coaches have strict zero tolerance policies during the season.
Fwiw- Swat tour guide mentioned that RAs do not crack down on illegal substances in your dorm room!
@Corbett a lot of schools have year round “informal” training…even the crappy Swarthmore athletes. The winter athletes actually get off the easiest, as 4 weeks of their schedule is winter break (which they lose…but don’t have school).
I would tend to agree with @wisteria100 on this one. Williams is too demanding to have 500 athletes partying much more than others. Like Swat, I would assume the athletes tend to party together, which makes them more noticeable and easily stereotyped should someone get carried away.
FWIW - Swat is pretty liberal about partying. They have rules, but do their best to let the students monitor their own behavior. After a few stupid freshman moments each fall, things seem to go along without too many issues. As a parent, I honestly think it’s handled well. Public Safety on campus is aptly named…they aren’t trying to get anyone in trouble, just making sure they stay out of it.
@hsgrad2017a …This is parental feedback (with implied limitations on sharing I receive), but I think the partying is pretty low key. Our current student at Swat didn’t want Greek life…but is social.