My D23 has narrowed her choices a bit. Admitted to engineering programs at Wisconsin, Purdue (honors), and Notre Dame, but thinking she might want to switch to economics with track to PhD to do policy work someday.
So two unrelated questions re these programs (realizing a good deal of this will come down to reputation vs. hard data):
Which of these schools would be best if she were shooting in longer term for top tier econ PhD program? These programs require heavy math, which she can do, but isnāt always the most confident. Which programs do you think offer the best support/encouragement to female quants/STEM?
How prevalent do you think ābro cultureā is at each of these? (She saw a fraternity party going on during a tour at another school and was unimpressed.)
My D would say there is not a bro culture at Purdue. Probably exists in some of the frats but not the prevalent attitude on campus, in or out of the classroom.
For econ and possible quant career, I would say Notre Dame gets the edge of these three.
ND has no frats. However single sex dorms are definitely the center of social life. Itās not exactly a bro culture but ND is strongly heteronormative.
I hope she can visit ND because its culture is very unique. Sheāll love it or hate it. Congrats on some great choices!
Just to make it more complicated, Iād say Wisconsin. UW is a major research university ā as is Purdue. The opportunity to build relationships with world class professors (as my UW kid did) and to explore the depth of coursework available at a major flagship is amazing. While thereās greek life at UW, and tailgating at Camp Randall, it does not dominate the campus culture ā because the undergrad experience is just too diverse. Having lived in Indiana and knowing many ND students, ND has a work hard-play hard mentality, plus the single sex dorm life creates a different sort of residential experience than at most major universities. Itās Econ dept actually split into two separate departments because of the tension between the old school policy types and the newer, econometrics types. The old school, policy side was then dissolved about ten years ago, I donāt know of those faculty found new homes in the current Econ department, if they retired, left etc.
For a kid who isnāt sure what she wants to do, a school like Wisconsin can work well because they offer a ton of programs, many of which are nationally and internationally recognized.
UW is top-20ish in both Engineering and Econ ā very strong.
And if she changed her mind to something else, chances are that UW offers it, and itās a high-quality program.
Purdue, of course, is probably a bit stronger than UW in Engineering (top 10 vs. top 20), but not as strong in Econ.
Both UW and Purdue are stronger than ND in Engineering. I imagine Wisc and ND are probably about equal in Econ, but Iām not 100% on that.
I have a highly academic kid graduating from Madison this year with 2 degrees (1 in STEM). He is so far from bro culture. It exists but also easy to avoid. With a big campus, there really is something for everyone. We know students know whoāve moved on from UW to great grad programs across the country. Madison is a really great little city.
If she is considering madison as an engineering student, she may want to consider the WISE LLC
Iād more carefully weigh NDās campus vibe because it is considerably smaller than the other 2. I really donāt think future prospects are limited by any of these options. Congrats on such great choices!
That was kind of how I have been looking at it. Purdue leads in engineering, but Wisc and ND may be better in econ, though I like how Purdue has been very explicit about their tracks for PhD economists and that student needs to talk w/them freshman year if this is something they might want to pursue.
What engineering major was she admitted to at Madison? They have an Industrial Engineering department, and almost half of the first-year coursework is math/econ, so that could be a way of keeping both options open until sheās gotten her feet wet and has more perspective. I agree with the WISE LLC recommendation!
Madison seems like the best strength-across-the-board option. Their āmathematical emphasisā track in econ would be the way to go for pre-PhD. ND is worth considering as well if she really loves it, although if youāre full pay, it may not be a great value compared to the others.
If she is interested in top tier economics Ph.D. program, she would be well served by majoring in both math and economics.
All three of these programs will send top students to elite Ph.D. programs as long as the math foundation in there (linear algebra, differential equations, real analysis, proof-based math).
ND will offer more hand-holding, more flexibility, and smaller classes. Wisconsin and Pursue will have a lot of academic/other opportunities given the size.
Unfortunately, econ heavily skews male in undergrad and Ph.D. programs - some bro culture will be there.
She is nuclear in Wisc, Materials Sci at Purdue (due to issues in their nuclear department ā Materials would be ānuclear adjacentā), and Mechanical at ND. The Wisc nuclear is really good, but she isnāt sure she really wants it (and talk about females being a minority ā¦ ). She likes all three programs, tho ND felt cozy. The CC gang has already helped me process the price issues.
She loved what she called ābaby econā so is thinking of that if engineering turns out to not be her cup of tea.
Nuclear and Materials are far apart. I think Materials is very versatile. I suspect Nuclear engg finds uses in the Navy, and in remote places where there are plants. We need to think carefully before picking these majors.
If sheās thinking of econ as a skill-set to apply to policy work, she might also consider data science, which has a bit of the employable-with-a-bachelors quality of engineering, but with more policy-related applications. ND has a data science minor and MS, but no undergrad major. Purdueās data science is part of the CS department, which might make it tough to switch into although I donāt know for sure. Madisonās data science major is part of the stats department (which is separate from math) and thus should be relatively accessible (although again I have no firsthand knowledge about this). It could combine well with econ, too.
Nuclear is pretty niche for a student who hasnāt fully narrowed down her interests. As Neela said, it can be more limiting in terms of where you live and work, than a broader major like mechanical or materials or industrial. What drew her to it?