<p>I would really appreciate some insight as to whether it is realistic to think that my son
who is a very good percussionist would be able to get into a good music program for composition.
Here is some background.
Until a couple of months ago my son ( who has just finished his junior year at a performing arts high school) wanted to major in percussion. He has studied percussion for 8 years, after reading many of the excellent posts here I found him an excellent teacher who currently teaches at the Frost school of music about 6 months ago.
My son participates in wind ensemble, orchestra and pit orchestra, All State etc.
He has written compositions using Finale for several years, but has no formal composition
training. He is taking AP music theory senior year.
I was quite taken aback when he told me a couple of months ago he now wants to major in
composition. But as son is quite a serious child, and very passionate about music I know that he did not come to this decision lightly.
But now I am wondering whether he has any chance of getting into a good music program for composition, I think he would have had a good shot as a percussionist.
He is working on his compositions this summer, we are visiting Indiana University and Peabody in July, but I really would like some suggestions for schools where he might have a more relistic chance of being accepted and some general advice?
Thanks</p>
<p>marimbamom, welcome. There are a number of additional composition thread links in post #21 of the thread here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/497283-best-schools-music-composition.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/497283-best-schools-music-composition.html</a></p>
<p>Hopefully some of the composition parents will chime in but in the meantime you can search for more composition threads or posts by Spiritmanager, compmom, Hunt and some of the others I’ve named in that post. </p>
<p>You might find some of the methods here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html</a> useful.</p>
<p>Did something happen to make him decide against percussion, or is this an entirely positive change for him toward composition?</p>
<p>A lot of students seem to start composing in 10th or 11th grade, so the timing is fine. A lot can happen in a year, with composing. It can be a wonderful thing.</p>
<p>It’s great that he is taking AP theory. Has he studied theory otherwise?</p>
<p>Is it possible for him to have a teacher this summer and for next year, for composition? I would say that a composition teacher at this stage of things can serve many purposes, including help getting pieces played, honest evaluations of work, help with choosing programs and also providing recommendations. Also, inspiration, ideas, help with craftsmanship, generally help with progressing. However, I think the best ones facilitate what the student is already doing, because you can’t really “teach” composing music.</p>
<p>Students who apply to composition programs at conservatories usually need to submit 3-4 scores and CD’s. Some allow Midi but most want or strongly prefer some pieces that are played by musicians.</p>
<p>Believe it or not, it can even be worthwhile to hire musicians for this purpose. Or find programs, either summer programs or school year conservatory prep type programs, or even a local university, where there might be a chance to get music played. Or maybe your son would be happy with players from ensembles he has played in, or knows musicians who might volunteer or work for less.</p>
<p>The scores and CD’s usually need to be submitted by December 1st, and then there are interviews/“auditions” in late Feb. and early March. Forgive me if you know all this.</p>
<p>Students who apply to college programs often send a score and CD for a piece or two, but it is good to be considerate of admissions and not send too much. Often, admissions will give the score and CD to the music department. But an interview/audition is not required.</p>
<p>Maybe you could say a little more about the music your son composes, and someone could suggest some programs.</p>
<p>In the meantime, no matter where he applies and for what, enjoy the music in your house. Composing seems to bring a lot to the students who get involved in it, and sometimes to the family too!</p>
<p>Thanks very much Violadad.
I am working my way through the composition threads and they are very helpful!</p>
<p>Hi Compmom,
Thanks for all your comments which are so insightful.
I had not realized many students gravitate towards composition in 10th
and 11th grade, The start of 10th grade was when my son started to spend a
lot of time composing.
Also, you asked if something happened to make my son decide against becoming a percussion major. I have spent many weeks asking myself the same question.
My son says he loves playing percussion but is not sure he wants a career as a performer.
He still practices ( marimba) for 2 or 3 hours a day. ( other instuments snare etc less)
I have wondered, however if changing from a mediocre teacher to a very gifted teacher/performer played a part in his decision. I say this because when he started studying with his new teacher he quickly realized that many of the old techniques he had been taught were incorrect. He has spent a very intense 6 months working to correct those problems. He is glad he found this out sooner than later! He greatly admires his teacher but I wonder if this ( i.e realizing he is not as good as he though he was as has
shaken his self-confidence.
Whatever the reason I am supporting his decision and I am so glad that there are people like you who can give advice, because frankly it is all a bit overwhelming sometimes.
From reading some of the other posts it seems that getting compositions played and recorded is very important. I have pointed this out to my son so we can come up with a plan of action.<br>
He has done some basic music theory.
His compositions are mostly marimba, small chamber pieces for different instruments, multi percussion, piano.
Thanks again for the advice.</p>
<p>I would just note that I have observed that lots of current, young composers love writing for the marimba (and other percussion).</p>
<p>One option to consider is a B.A. music major with a concentration in composition–that’s what my son is doing. It may be easier to get in as opposed to a conservatory.</p>
<p>Hunt,
Thats an interesting observation.
May I ask where your son is going to college?
I think that perhaps my son should look into the possabillity of doing a BA.<br>
Also, how much time roughly does your son spend in music related classes and how much time doing core/liberal arts classes? Is he enjoying the program he is in?</p>
<p>Marimbamom - there are many valid and satisfying paths to studying composition in college. If you tell us more about your son and what he is looking for in a college experience we can probably suggest a number of programs for him to look into.</p>
<p>Hi Spiritmanager,
I think my son is looking for somewhere where he can immerse himself in music, somewhere he will have the freedom to develop his own compositional style, but also be given the tools and solid musical foundation to accomplish this. I think he would like to continue to study percussion with a private teacher just because he loves it,but for pleasure rather than seeking a performance degree.
Somewhere with classical composition training but with the opportunities to incorporate technology and perhaps computer generated sounds into his compositions.
This is why Peabody appeals to him because they have a computer music BM with a composition tract. He also likes the TIMARA and regular composition program at Oberlin. But from what I have seen both Peabody and Oberlin take a very small number of students each year into these programs so they are probably very much reach schools.
He quite liked the programs at Northwestern and University of Michigan but thinks that academically they will be too tough to get into. He has a 3.8 GPA, but so far not very impressive SAT’s.
I think eventually he might like to do film scoring or possibly even scoring for video games. He enjoys a lot of different classical and contemporary composers so it is hard to pinpoint what direction he will go in.
My concern is that he will apply to all these places and not get into any of them!
So he needs to find a few places where he would probably be accepted academically and
which have a stong music program. From reading many of the audition experiences on CC
it seems that music admissions are totally unpredictable.
I am constantly amazed at the tenacity of the parents who go through this process and their hardworking and gifted children who are determined to follow their musical dreams.</p>
<p>Although I’m biased because my son attends Bard - I would say that is definitely a place for your son to consider - the college and not the conservatory. In the college he could major in music and study both electronic (with some of the experimental leaders in the field such as Richard Teitelbaum) and classical composition, and he could study percussion, as well. And it is not audition based so he wouldn’t need an impressive portfolio to get in - and could develop it before he was required to declare his major. And percussion players have lots of performance opportunities (as do the composers in the college.) Bard is SAT optional so his scores aren’t important and his GPA and passions fit the school.</p>
<p>What state do you live in? There are many electronic music opportunities at some of the state universities - even unlikely ones like Univ. of Montana. Univ. of Illinois and Univ. of Virginia are others that quickly comes to mind.</p>
<p>Does he want academics, or does he only want to study music? That makes a difference, of course. You might look into a conservatory like program such as Cal Arts, for instance, which is connected, like USC to the film/media world. Check out USC - although they are into SAT scores there.</p>
<p>So many choices out there, really. Let us know more about your son and we’ll keep throwing ideas at you.</p>
<p>Hi marimbamom,</p>
<p>I was kind of in the same situation as your son. I played my instruments for 14 years and I suddenly started composing in the spring of my senior year. I would advise getting a composition teacher. I only had my composition teacher for a month before portfolios were due, working together non-stop on getting 3 scores completed. My teacher happily wrote me a recommendation. She actually asked if she could write one for me. I think it’s important for the department to read of your son’s abilities, “teachability” and potential from a teacher who specializes in composition. (And depending on the school, you need 3 recommendations from those who can speak of your son’s musical abilities). Also, in the last minute, my teacher hooked me up with performance opportunities of my compositions free of charge by her colleagues who happened to be doctors and graduate students of the particular instruments.</p>
<p>Since I’m going to UMich this fall, I’ll provide a little information:
Even though ~50% of all Michigan freshman have a 3.9 GPA or higher, the School of Music’s average GPA of freshman is 3.6, which shows that they emphasize more on talent. The minimum GPA is a 3.0 and an “SAT of 1100 or better in the Critical Reading and Math, or SAT of 1650 or better including Writing.” I wouldn’t take a school out of the running because of academics.
Also, Michigan’s composition department, like many other schools, pride themselves for having very diverse voices in the student body. And, in the department alone, the voices are very unique from professor to professor.
And you’ll get the full college experience, not being stuck in a music “bubble”; be able to work with theater, dance, and other disciplines; and much more.
[UM</a> School of Music, Theatre & Dance - Department of Composition - FAQ](<a href=“http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/composition/faq.htm]UM”>http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/composition/faq.htm)</p>
<p>If your son has the talent and keeps above the minimum requirements, every school is realistic! Don’t let anything discourage your son from the possibilities! And I found that they like to see your POTENTIAL at their school more than anything, so I say apply to Michigan, Northwestern, and USC if he’s drawn to their music departments!</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son!</p>
<p>My son just finished his first year at Yale, and (so far) he’s liking what he sees about the music major. It requires 12-14 credits (as I recall) out of a total of 36 required, depending on how one does on music theory and musicianship placement. There are also distributional requirements, so you can’t take just music courses. There is a composition seminar that would-be composers take, and you can continue to take it for credit multiple semesters. It includes a weekly lesson with either a music grad student or a faculty member, again depending on placement.</p>
<p>It sounds like your son is a hard-working, disciplined, and serious student of percussion. He practices 2-3 hours/day and has been studying for years. It is always possible that he will want to continue this study once he adjusts to the new teacher. You may be thinking the same thing…(Also, I think the person who said composers love the marimba these days is right!)</p>
<p>My daughter had the same experience when she switched to an amazing classical guitar teacher (and also bought herself a used guitar from a luthier who transformed it for her to an amazing instrument). The new teacher commented that it was as if she was “in a canoe without a paddle,” but it really did not take as long as she originally thought it would, to acquire that paddle (this was maybe 6 years ago). (She is still practicing every day, but ended up in a BA program for composition, not a BM for guitar.)</p>
<p>About distribution requirements and the number of classes in the major: this varies, and was a major factor in our daughter’s choice of schools. Her school (Harvard) has only 8-9 classes for distribution requirements, and I believe she will take 16 classes in music overall. She liked that she could do so much music.</p>
<p>Oberlin and Bard sound like great schools to look into for your son. Oberlin has a “low wall” between conservatory and college and your son could have flexibility in his choices for the future. At Bard, a double degree is mandatory for conservatory students (BA/BM).</p>
<p>I think that really looking into each school and considering the specifics of what your son wants and needs, is well worth the time. It sounds like you guys are doing that. Just as an example, our daughter did not want to do a seminar, such as the one Yale offers. She prefers to be left alone (!). Some of her friends love the Yale seminar, by the way. Harvard lets students do independent composition work for credit, so she works outside of Harvard with a teacher, but can have a concert of the work at Harvard, for credit. Yale may offer the same kinds of opportunities, but at Harvard, seminars are generally for non-majors. So there are these differences between schools.</p>
<p>Personally, I love Peabody’s vibe. I love that they emphasize learning by having your pieces played frequently. This is a big drawback for students at colleges who are composing: harder to get musicians, and students have to be very entrepreneurial to get music played. It’s possible, but harder.</p>
<p>This is all kind of random, but just some things to think about.</p>
<p>I love reading about kids who are involved in music in diverse ways, who have a sort of “holistic” passion for it as well as some really deepened skills. Your son sounds great!
It is hard to be applying and deciding at a time when his interests may be changing, so just letting you know, again, that this seems to be fairly common, and most find that even at this time when there is pressure to decide some things, there is still flexibility in the path that they may choose.</p>
<p>I hope he applies to “reaches” because he sounds like a great prospect for any school. People here can also give ideas on “matches” and “safeties” too.</p>
<p>I was rightly chastised for using the word ‘unlikely’ to describe some of the less well-known music programs in my earlier post. What I really meant is that when one is searching for a school - one needs to look beyond the first names that always pop up and actually delve into the programs at schools everywhere. There are many gems out there and they don’t always get their due. I am always hoping that our readers who have personal experience at some of those schools will pipe up and let us all know about the great things happening there.</p>
<p>Hi SpritManager,
I really appreciate all the information and help.
I had looked at Bard a year or so, but only at the conservatory. At that time they did not offer percussion, although this may have changed. But I remember thinking it looked like a wonderful place. Now, that we are looking for composition instead of percussion I think we will look into their program at the college level. I did not know the SAT’s were optiional there which is also a plus! I also told my son about Richard Teitelbaum so he can listen to some of his work.
Also will check out the other lesser known schools that you mentioned.
We live in Florida. My son says he does not mind where he goes to college, he just wants to get into the best program for music that he can. So we are open to everywhere.</p>
<p>Hi Shinester.
Thanks for your insight and encouragement.
I think you are right and finding a good composition teacher is really important.
It certainly helped you, and I think the reasons you suggested that this is important are
valid.
Thanks for the information about UMich. The fact that the academic requirements may be slightly less for music freshman ( 3.6 GPA rather than 3.9) is useful to know.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Best wishes to you in the Fall.</p>
<p>Hi Compmom,
Your daughter sounds like a lovely and accomplished young lady!
I was happy to read that she stills plays classical guitar as well as doing the
BA in composition.
I agree that Oberlin and Bard look like wonderful schools.
We are visiting Peabody in July. I found their website to be so helpful when we started this process, especially as someone who did not have a clue about the different music degree programs etc.
I appreciate knowing that I am not alone in having a child who is changing the musical direction they are going in. Also hearing how other musicians have successfully changed
from performance to composition is reassuring.
Thanks again to you and everyone who have taken the time to offer help and suggestions
I already feel like a weight has been lifted!</p>
<p>Marimbamom, I pretty much agree with Shinster with respect to targeting all those schools if they seem like a fit because with a 3.8 GPA and attendance at a performing arts high school he will likely be viewed as a strong candidate for an SOM who just doesn’t happen test well if the SAT doesn’t reflect the GPA. Generally, as long as there’s not grade inflation at his HS and its considered rigorous, schools like UMich prefer a hard worker to a natural test-taker (Northwestern is a little stickier on this and same may be true of USC. Maybe he should try the ACT – my son, also an artsie, scored better on it than SAT)</p>
<p>At any rate, my son is not in traditional composition at University of Michigan, but in a semi-related, electronic emphasis composition and recording/multimedia program at the school of music called PAT (Performing Arts Technology.) That said, they take a lot of composition classes, and he loves the diversity of the faculty – electronic/experimental, traditional, contemporary and popular.
You mentioned some future vocational areas that my own son is targeting, so if you’d like info about his program, just PM me. If you do decide to check out UMich, I’ll assist you if need be.</p>
<p>But the best advice that might serve you would be to get him working on his portfolio right now, and put together a nice package with his repertoire, musical resume, and to start writing base essays about what he wants to accomplish in comp. If he uses his summer well, plus gets a composition instructor to work on his final submissions/scores, you will be in good shape by Dec. 1st to get the materials into ALL those schools to give the best range of options.</p>
<p>While each might require a slightly different submission, I found with my son that it was much easier when fall rolled around to get the right combo of information and samples together to submit to the various schools because he had dedicated many hours in the summer getting his materials (and himself) well prepared. It really paid off in our case to have him devote a solid 6 weeks in July and August prior to his senior year treating this prep, together with private lessons, like a full time job. In his case, that meant revising two scores and writing a (stronger) new one; securing studio time to get live performances of compositions recorded (and multitracking, and video editing/scoring samples) plus additional production challenges that included electronic arrangement/instrumentation of a Bach fugue, etc. and the layout of a comprehensive portfolio booklet with artist and production notes, letters of musical reference, etc. He also had wide gaps in his experience, and he addressed those by enrolling in programs at a local college and university to ‘catch up’ during his senior year. He explained this intent in his portfolio notes with attention to his strengths and weaknesses and his overall plan.</p>
<p>His portfolio and submissions were a little labor intensive because he was also preparing and editing film and other creative materials, mind you. But it made a big difference for us to work ahead.</p>
<p>Hope that gives you an idea of a good place for him to dig in if he’d like to get started. It is entirely possible to make the decision now and have very positive results come next April (at the conservatory/portfolio submission level) if he does the base work now and it’s work that’s informed by his experience, musicality and musicianship.</p>
<p>To get good coverage/odds (which are fluky in the school of music world) you may want him to at least apply to all the schools, BA and BMUS, mentioned to date on this thread. (Eg. Peabody, Oberlin, USC, NWestern, Umich, Bard, and all the others not mentioned but to which Spirit Manager was referring – meaning, the ones I can’t think of right this second ;)</p>
<p>Good luck in your voyage (because you’re embarking on one 
Cheers,
K</p>
<p>Marimbamom - on the WQXR Project 440 site that I started a thread about earlier one composer I was intrigued by, Paula Matthusen, is "based in Miami and New York. She writes both electroacoustic and acoustic music and creates sound installations. She specializes in writing for diverse instrumentations, as in her work run-on sentence of the pavement for piano, ping-pong balls, and electronics…
Matthusen is currently Director of Music Technology at Florida International University.</p>
<p>I would say - based on the above, that your son should check out that university. Florida State Univ, too. And Univ. of Miami, of course. I keep saying it - but there are lots of great things going on all over the place.</p>
<p>marimbamom–You’ve received many great suggestions here and I second all of them. My son’s experience was similar to yours in that his main focus was performance (violin, second instrument, piano), and composing was something he did to “de-stress”–he only became serious about composing in his sophomore year, similar to what compmom is describing. He did not start studying composition formally until senior year. He ended up applying to conservatories in both composition and violin.</p>
<p>I’d like to add to what others have said, that, in my son’s case, although he became very engrossed in composition senior year of high school, performance re-emerged with all its former passion during his freshman year of college. Your son may find renewed focus for his percussion as well, so that finding a school like Peabody, Bard, Michigan, Northwestern, etc. where he can have it all will probably make him happiest in the long run.</p>