By the way, not even on the OP’s list is U of Washington, and the competition for that one (Seattle) has massively intensified in just the last 5 years. I’m certain this reflects population shifts and more universal ambition for a college education. What U of Washington is receiving in the way of application contents gets better every year.
I’m doing exactly that. I’m sending my daughter out of state to a small private LAC and it will cost me significantly more (okay, instate public schools are free for us, so that 's not really fair). There is no way I would force her to attend our flagship university. It is totally wrong for her, way too big both physically (the campus), too many students, and for her, too impersonal.
She wants to leave our state and I kind of agree that she is better suited to live in other parts of the U…S. So why have her stay in state?
I used to have the same outlook. Why pay for a “low ranked” (outside the top 25,30)? Then I watched my child grow up, started looking at colleges, and realized there are many excellent schools beyond the usual suspects. No, they aren’t well known. No, they aren’t prestigious. No. they aren’t among the top 25. But guess what, they are good and in some cases, have fairly unique programs that suit my child better.
I’d rather pay the money to send her to a college that suits her learning style than send her to the flagship because it’s cheaper and “higher ranked”. Sometimes it’s not about prestige or money, it’s about a person - one’s child.
Many programs, but not the one your kid is looking for!
One thing that might bother some families- at least 3 state flagships are having budget disputes with their respective state governments. When the governor or legislature isn’t prioritizing public higher education, that can mean things like bigger classes, cuts to programs, etc. which can lead to a perception of decline in quality.
My state flagship in Illinois was totally wrong for me (heavily Greek, sports oriented, stronger in engineering than humanities, deep in the cornfields).
“One thing that might bother some families- at least 3 state flagships are having budget disputes with their respective state governments.”
And it’s more than just the repercussions you mention, and definitely more than “perception.” Because of budget shortfalls, some state flagships are preferring OOS tuition applicants, leading to even more tentative expectations for the in-state student at popular, renown publics. Again, it is simply foolish not to apply to privates and OOS publics as well. (What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.)
When my daughter visited our state flagships UC Berkeley and UCSD ( both accepted her) she said “This is too big for me.”
She went to a full pay LAC where she was very happy, thrived and made lifelong friendships.
Yes, she was very lucky that we were able to pay and thanked me now and then for giving her the opportunity.
This is a free older version of a paper about “Where do the children of college professors attend?” If you want to know who has the inside scoop about colleges, it’s those who work there. Given their insights into academics, where do they encourage their kids to apply? http://www.accessecon.com/pubs/VUECON/vu03-w02.pdf
Because the UCs are over-enrolled, have many “impacted” majors so kids can’t change their minds and switch, and because it’s hard to get the classes you need to graduate in 4 years. And because a small LAC is a much better fit for my D than Berkeley or UCLA. We think she will get a better education at the LAC. College isn’t a “One Size Fits All” sort of thing, in my opinion.
We’ll be in that position, I suspect. University of Florida would have any major a kid could want, pretty much. It is highly regarded within the state. Pretty sure kiddo would get in there, and between Bright Futures and Florida Prepaid we would end up paying nothing for him to attend.
However, I could definitely see him attending a smaller, private school, not necessarily in state. Plus he’ll at least be considering some Catholic options. What he ends up choosing will be up to him.
@Trisherella, you have the option of a good smaller public school however: NCF.
Because some kids don’t like LACs and don’t like to go to the East Coast so much. My kid complained that even though she likes MIT but Boston is very small. She went to the super market to buy fresh fruits and most of everything, even blue berries came from California. So kid #2 decided the UCs are good enough.
Kid #1 got accepted to the school that Hilary graduated from but she didn’t like leaving California. Not all kids are the same.
The “cannot get the classes to graduate in 4 years” seems to be a common meme that does not seem to be true very often at UCs (and private schools are not exempt from this). Indeed, major impaction (which is not unique to UCs; even some highly selective private schools have it) exists to ensure that the number of students in any given major does not overflow the department’s instructional capacity.
While it is true that some posters seem to have an irrational dislike for state schools (or their own state’s state schools; NJ residents seem to be pretty common in wanting to go anywhere except Rutgers, for example), there are some rational reasons for being willing to pay more for other schools. Obviously, they do not apply to every student, and the large enrollment at many state schools indicates that many students consider them the best value available to them. But possible reasons for going elsewhere, even at a higher (but still within the budget discussed beforehand):
- Student's intended major(s) are not available, of poor quality (few faculty, limited course offerings), or a poor fit for the student's interests (e.g. a non-mathematical economics major for a student intending to prepare for PhD study in economics) at the state school.
- Student would do better at a much smaller or specialty school, and the state system does not have such a school.
- Student was not admitted to the state school.
- Student was not admitted to the desired major at the state school, and it is difficult to change into the desired major after enrolling at the state school (common examples are nursing majors, CS at the University of Washington, or engineering and/or business majors at some of the more selective state schools).
- The state school is only less expensive due to a scholarship that requires a stressfully high GPA to renew each year.
“but she didn’t like leaving California. Not all kids are the same.”
Unfortunately, not enough CA students evaluate, before submitting applications out of state, whether they would really like or really hate living outside of CA. If they did, there would be thousands fewer applications to Northeast and MidWest schools, I assure you.
There’s nothing wrong with preferring one’s home environment. Lots of people also don’t like leaving Arizona, Oregon, Florida, Colorado, etc.
Then. Don’t. Being honest would reduce unnecessary pressures on the entire system. The myth is that both coasts are “the same.” They most surely are not. It would be better to investigate this reality at the beginning of the process, not the end.
We (and in fact our D. even way back in HS), never believed in one school being superior to another. All three of us believed that some students have superior work ethic over others. So, as a HS senior, D. commented that she will do fine anywhere. She spent considerable time researching which of the schools that meet her criteria would also fit her personality and wide range of interests the best and happened to choose in-state public that offered her full tuition Merit award. One thing she never thought of checking is ranking, it was totally irrelevent in her decision making. She was offerred very high Merit ($27k/year) also at one private, but this one did not meet all of her criteria.
Now looking back as a soon to be Medical School graduate (in May of this year), she continues stating that she has chosen the best college for herself, the one that gave her much more than all 3 of us anticipated, including a great selection of Med. schools that she was accepted at the end.
We never cared about statistics at any college. The statistics shows what others were able to accomplish there. D. had her own plan for success. Since she relied simply on her own hard work and nothing else, she was able to reach her goal.
However, my D’s goal is not applicable to everybody. If a kid after presitge and high ranking than going to in-state public will not satisfy his goal. This is very simple. Person’s goal is not “right” or “wrong”, it is a personal goal and others have nothing to do with it, they simply have a different goal.
I believe the opening question is why would a family choose to send their student to a lower ranking LAC when they have the option of a very highly ranked and sought after flagship at their disposal not the other way around.
Better student-to-teach ratio.
Classes taught by professors instead of TA’s.
A tighter distribution curve of students’ abilities/seriousness.
Generally, a higher sense of personal touch, and not just in classes.
^^I have one kids at a state (OOS) flagship and one at a private tech school with about 3500 students. By far I have more trouble with the smaller private school on the administration side. If this is the ‘personal touch’ I’m not getting my money’s worth! They are nice, but every problem that comes up takes a specialist to handle, and by that I mean ONE person and only that person can fix it, be it a meal plan problem or registering for classes. At the flagship, no problems so far at all. I have sent one or two emails to FA at the flagship. At the smaller school, I have spent HOURS on the phone and talked to just about every person who works there because everyone has just one job, and he/she is the only person who can handle that item.
My daughter at the flagship knows all her professors, and the TAs too, even in classes of 200 because there is always a smaller discussion group, she always attends classes, and makes the effort to meet them. Most of her classes are 25-30 students. I think her French class as 15.
Neither has had a problem getting into the courses she wants.
Parents are always seeking the smaller class size and environment for their students. In this area, the biggest high schools (3500+ students) are the best, and often parents move from smaller schools to be in the district of the large ones. Then these same parents want only a small LAC for their kids who have just spent 4 years in the biggest schools, where there is still only one head of the class, one class president, one top quarterback, 5 starting on the basketball team, etc.
I think for the majority, the public option is just fine, just like the public option for high school was just fine. The problem is that at the top flagships, everyone can’t get in and people aren’t really picking between a public good state flagship and an instate LAC with the flagship being cheaper. Students who are accepted to the flagships usually have a lot of other options, and they may be cheaper or the same price because of scholarships.
DS knew he wanted a personal environment and an environment where rich and poor were not segregated socially. That criteria knocked out our two flagship schools right away. Talking to older students about gaining research opportunities and solid LOR for med school was another reason. His hs friends are in classes with 200 people, while he goes to dinner with his O-Chem professor monthly. His school is well-regarded but most in our state would put it under the state schools.