<p>Are drops on the transcript? Sometimes they are left off...I know MIT doesn't put drops on the transcript.</p>
<p>I would say drop the class and take it over if it is a class that interests you. </p>
<p>Med school, law school, and Wall Street have high requirements for GPA so that's just something to consider.</p>
<p>My own D is in a similar situation. After meeting with her advisor she has decided to withdraw and retake the course this summer at a local college. A C may jeopardize her scholarship.</p>
<p>My son got a C on a midterm in one of his classes and he told me that he had one of the highest grades in his class. The professor said that she will not curve the grades and that the midterm grades were the lowest she had ever handed out. This is a neccessary class for his major and I don't know if another professor teaches it even if he did drop it and then took it again. I suggested to my son that perhaps the whole class was not working hard enough, including him. It never occured to me to suggest that he should drop the class. </p>
<p>I don't understand why everyone seems to think that if you drop a class where you are not getting an A or a B, that the replacement class will be easier and you will do better. I think I could take calculus ten times and still not get higher then a C.</p>
<p>kathie, I agree understand what you are saying. For a student who is set on going directly to med or law school, or to a prestigious graduate MBA program, it might be wise to drop the class. Also, if you have a merit scholarship requiring a 3.0, 3.2, 3.5 to keep the award, then you might be forced to drop the class to keep that merit award. A few people I know, have sons or daughters who lost their merit awards.</p>
<p>man, some of you act like a C is the end of the world. It's average. a C is average. I really don't think employers care if you get one C in one class during freshman year.</p>
<p>and it's 3 measley credits out of like 120 (or however many your program is). One C won't make a difference.</p>
<p>fendergirl, I also agree with you. I also think that some of the CC students have never seen C before. Some of them have had all As or a couple of Bs in hs. A C must be devastating, depressing, and tough to cope with when one has never experienced a mediocre (and forget about failing) grade. I had a classmate in HS who went to an Ivy. He was always in the academic spotlight and received accolades for his accomplishments. He had a lot of trouble coping and was very depressed at college. At his Ivy he was just an average student.</p>
<p>A 'C' is by no means the end of the world. Like everything else, it depends on each student's unique situation. It's not about pride - it's about reality. For students that have to maintain a scholarship, meet criteria to go abroad, or want to apply to certain graduate programs, it matters.</p>
<p>The OP said that this course is not part of the student's intended major. Therefore, the course does not have to be taken again. In the case of Kathiep's son, it's a different story because the course is in his major. And some courses (like Orgo) are historically known to be extremely difficult with low grades. Grad schools know that.</p>
<p>People should not generalize; rather, they should evaluate each situation independently.</p>
<p>I got a straight up F in a course my first term freshman year, and still managed to graduate with honors and still got into every grad program that I applied to.</p>
<p>I think one of the bigger issues at hand is that we as parents are remiss in teaching our kid about being resilient, and letting them know that all of our attempts at something are going to come out perfectly. Hey, some of our attempts we are going to downright fail at. I think that there is just as an important lesson in doing something and failing or having a less than stellar outcome (maybe a better lesson) as there is in doing something and being successful. </p>
<p>For those who have never experienced a set back and have gotten up, shaken themselves off, reassess and and regroup are going to be in for a rude awakening when that day comes (and it will come before your life is over).</p>
<p>There is no shame in getting a C especially if you have done your best work because there may come a time you have take the C like a (wo)man, be happy that you got it and keep it moving. </p>
<p>If OPs student is doing well in all of her other classes where a couple of A's will offset the C then the C is just going to be a small hiccup in the road. </p>
<p>For ex. If D is taking 5 classes of equal credits and gets 3 A's, 1 B+ and 1 C+ she will still have ~ 3.5 gpa at the end of the term. </p>
<p>I agree with Kathie, if the course is required dropping it now just ot have to pick it up later is not going to make the course any easier.</p>
<p>
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After meeting with her advisor she has decided to withdraw and retake the course this summer at a local college
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</p>
<p>I would talk to the registar about this as most time when you take a course outside of your school, you just transfer over the credit(s) and not the grade to your transcript so a course taken at another school will not do anything to raise your gpa at your home school.</p>
<p>Personally, I would talk to my kid and let him/her brainstorm the pros and cons of dropping/adding the course. I would then suggest that the student speak to the advisor and that I would support either decision.</p>
<p>I would not want the responsibility of making the decision either way.</p>
<p>The valuable lesson here is in the decision making process for the student as s/he learns to accept the consequences (positive or negative) of decisions and move on.</p>
<p>I think twinmom's response, just before this one, is the best of all.</p>
<p>It's the student's decision, and learning to evaluate the pros and cons of such decisions is part of what going to college is all about.</p>
<p>I think this thread is best viewed as a source of information on factors that may play roles in the decision but that the student might not have thought of -- such as GPA requirements to keep a particular scholarship or credit hour requirements to keep one's full-time student status.</p>
<p>I agree with some posts here that you cannot generalize. A "C" could mean differently to each student, depending on individual situation. But I am just not sure if it needs to be a "life lesson" for our kids at this point. We have through many incidents, before they went away to college, taught them to be persistant and not give up easily. My daughter has fell on her ankle, went on 3 months of painful physical therapy, then to come back to do ballet again when her doctor had told her to stop. She did it without us pushing her. I am sure there are many kids out there with similar stories. At this point, if my daughter were to tell me that she wants to drop a class for whatever reason, then I would trust her to do so. On a separate note about ballet. We have also talked her into not to pursue a professional career as a dancer because she will never be an "A" dancer, whereas she probably could be an "A" business woman (a more lucrative career too).</p>
<p>In real life, I am responsible for many critical systems for my bank. The most difficult thing for me to get through some developers is it's better to walk away from a bad design, then to foolishly trying to make it work. Those systems either work (to manage the firm's risk) or don't. To get those systems to work at a "C" level is not acceptable, they have to always work at "A" level. Most people do not like to admit failure. I do not reward my staff for "making it work at all cost." I do reward them for coming up with a backup plan in order to meet firm's deadline. </p>
<p>I know my view is probably very much influenced by the type of work I have been in for over 20+ years. It is to figure out the end game (go to grad school, keep your scholarship, ability to go abroad, work at some first tier IB, or none of the above), then pursue your grades accordingly. When you are turned down by "whatever" because of an C or D, they are not going to care that it was for character building. They will say that you should have "managed it" better.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your thoughts. My D's dean didn't really give her a definitive answer. She said that she didn't think a C was so bad, but that she understands the desire to protect her GPA. She said that a withdrawal on the transcript is not a problem as long as it doesn't become a pattern. (A W will go on her transcript because it is too late in the semester to simply drop the course). She also said that my D should consider whether withdrawing would help her do better in her other courses and asked my D what her parents thought about this. </p>
<p>My D really wants OUT of this course, but she wants our support. She is frustrated with working so hard and not seeing results. Her prof also said that the material will be much harder for the rest of the semester and my D is nervous that she won't even be able to maintain the C.</p>
<p>My Husband sides with those of you who suggest there is a real life lesson in sticking with tough problems rather than running away from them. Should we just support her and let her feel good about withdrawing?</p>
<p>I got a C on a midterm. It made me realize how I had to study for the final. I got an A on the final, wrote A papers, and ended up with an A- in the course. The final grade might not be a C. However it sounds like your daughter doesn't particularly like this course and feels it's going to get harder. That wasn't true in my case, I loved the course, but it was a history course. All I needed to do was study more effectively.</p>
<p>I would support your D in her decision. Nobody has a crystal ball to know how the rest of the semester will play out, but she could end up with a lower grade. Is she the type of person who would become ill under the strain? Will her other grades suffer? I don't know the answers, but I would allow my child to make the decision. I would discuss all of the pros and cons first if my child were willing to discuss them.</p>
<p>Your husband seems like he's looking at this through a larger lens. The withdrawing is just a single isolated incident. People withdraw from courses all the time. Withdrawal is really not a big deal in the large scheme of things.<br>
I'm trying to think of what I would do. I want my kids to be risk takers; that's a trait we tried to instill in them all their lives. We also want our kids to be able to handle adversity, do whatever they have to do to pull the rabbit out of the hat, and recover from setbacks. HOWEVER, if they wanted to withdraw from a class, I would support them. That's because I've seen them time and time again, do all the above. They've pulled up C's and they've lived with Cs, they've suffered injuries and come back, they've dug their way out of horrible batting averages and ERAs, they've lost championship games and lived to see the sun come up, they've studied ten hours for tests and ended up with a 68. I'm not concerned about a lack of stamina/backbone.
I guess I'd ask yourself, you know your D better than anyone else- is this is just an isolated patch of black ice, or is it a symptom of a larger problem?</p>
<p>"Should we just support her and let her feel good about withdrawing?"</p>
<p>I guess it depends. College is new and different, and coursework is a lot harder. She is adjusting to higher expectations and a new environment. Everybody who has ever attended college knows all of this, so one C your first semester is no big deal. </p>
<p>Whether I was supportive or not would really depend on the context. Your original post was all about the GPA, and my response was predicated on that. I ran a quick calculation and the impact on an overall GPA of one four credit C is .04 points--and for a 3 credit C it is .03. So if her concern is GPA I think there is more value in sticking it out, finding some resources like tutoring or study groups, and learning how to dig yourself out of a bad grade. </p>
<p>If the issue is that the class is taking time away from her other classes and her other grades are at risk, or if her grade difficulties are caused by a genuine lack of preparation for the subject, then a withdrawal is probably sensible. </p>
<p>Neither outcome: a W or a C, is a huge deal at this point in her college career. I would just want to, if it were my daughter, make sure she is not wildly unrealistic about her grade expectations in college--in freshman orientation at D's college they warned us that some kids get completely undone by an initial C or even B--these kids are used to getting A's and some have trouble accepting the higher standards and competition of college work. Part of the first year is learning how to operate in the more demanding world of college, and withdrawing at the first sign of trouble is going to delay her adjustment later on when the stakes are higher. If she's just freaking out because she has never gotten a C before, then I would NOT be supportive or "make her feel good" about dropping the class.</p>
<p>"Should we just support her and let her feel good about withdrawing?"</p>
<p>OP: You've gotten a lot of good information here. It sounds like you are having as much trouble making a decision as is your daughter! As I suggested earlier, this is not your decision. You can't "let her feel good." Only she can determine how she will feel. You know her personality. Will it be that cut and dry? Might she drop and see the W on her transcript forever and each time say, "Maybe I could have pulled it up?" Or is she the type of kid that does something and never looks back?</p>
<p>Your daughter (while hopefully weighing the pros and cons) should realize that she is very close to the end of the course. Guessing that she probably began the course around the end of August, she's already put almost three months of work into it! Does she want to give that work up, regardless of the grade? (Maybe yes, maybe no.)</p>
<p>Has she spoken to the professor? Perhaps s/he could give her some study tips or insights as to how she might improve for the final.</p>
<p>Originally, I thought your daughter was primarily concerned about her GPA for her future plans. Now it sounds like she's simply stressed about getting a C. I will say that I totally understand that; neither of my kids has gotten a C YET, but that doesn't mean that it won't happen one day. Kids that get into top competitive schools are used to A's. Many are shell-shocked when they get their first B's. </p>
<p>I will share with you that after my daughter's first semester at Harvard, we received a form letter from the Dean of Freshmen. He suggested that parents look kindly upon their children's first grade report as most (if not all) of these kids are used to achieving perfect or near perfect grades. He states that the kids with D's or F's would be approached and offered strategies to help them the following semester. C's were not even mentioned! </p>
<p>With all due respect, perhaps it's time for you and your husband to both step back. You are both disagreeing about a decision that's not even yours!</p>
<p>Let her be ... and support her with her choice. Your job: If she second guesses her decision after the fact, be proud that she made an "educated decision" and remind her that there's no point in looking back.</p>
<p>60 Minutes had a segment about the "Millennium" generation. These are the kids who have been told how wonderful they are, who have played sports with no losers and received trophies just for showing up, who get A's just for trying, who think the world owes them those A's and believe the world was created for their benefit. It might take a long time for some of these kids to grow up. Maybe a few C grades, or lower, is not such a bad thing. Regardless it is time for some of the over protected kids to make their own decisions and mistakes and suffer the consequences.</p>
<p>"Should we just support her and let her feel good about withdrawing?"
And why should she feel good about withdrawing. Having some difficulty and then quitting is not something to feel good about.</p>
<p>From my experience, most recruiters don't have time to look through every grade for every course, they just look at the final GPA in deciding whether to select you for an interview. Many don't even require you to submit a transcript, just your cumulative GPA. I would take a 'W'.</p>
<p>"60 Minutes had a segment about the "Millennium" generation. These are the kids who have been told how wonderful they are, who have played sports with no losers and received trophies just for showing up, who get A's just for trying, who think the world owes them those A's and believe the world was created for their benefit. It might take a long time for some of these kids to grow up. Maybe a few C grades, or lower, is not such a bad thing. Regardless it is time for some of the over protected kids to make their own decisions and mistakes and suffer the consequences."</p>
<p>In most activities, losing doesn't have to be something that is written in stone on a piece of paper that determines your post-graduate opportunities. I think you are drawing way too much into it. </p>
<p>And in my experience as a TA, people often end up getting worse grades than they expect, sometimes because the professor overestimates people's letter grades when talking to them and sometimes because people do worse on the final exam. As a TA, I was forbidden to tell people to drop the class even if they were getting an "F". It seems that the school wants to keep as many people in their classes as possible</p>