At least for those who can afford to go to out of state colleges with no FA. Does the same apply to NJ students who went to K-12 schools in middle income or poor areas?
NJ schools in low income areas still offer AP classes at higher rates than many wealthier areas in poorer states. I live in the poorest county in NJ and we have a list of a couple dozen AP/DE classes available to the students plus we have a decent art/music program. Special education services are also generous compared to other states.
Community colleges in NJ are expanding and attract solidly middle class students who can transfer most credits to nearly all colleges in NJ excepting Princeton. Top 15% of hs grad get two years free at cc as well.
It costs a lot of money in col and taxes to reside in NJ but you do get some solid benefits for your money. I’m considering for my daughter to send her out of state when the time comes (jr high still) only because if she doesn’t go the cc to uni route instate, it’s likely a similar cost to go out of state after merit awards. Room/board on all NJ campuses is really high so if tuition comes at a reasonable rate and it’s what she wants we’d have to consider it. We’d be full pay for a school like Rowan or TCNJ (donut hole fam) which don’t give much merit money and come in around $28,000/yr or more.
This thread is about regional colleges under financial distress but and I don’t mean to highjack it but other states could look at our cc system as a model. It really is a smart way to help middle/low income students.
@ UCB I Hope so, my kid went to a public HS school. Despite being a decent HS it isn’t a top 100 HS in NJ (little surprised b/c our students are pretty good, that has more to do with NJ having many good public HSs than about us not being “top 100”) . I have no reason to think lower level income students get less of an education. Of course home situation make a difference too but the point here is that NJ public HSs are very good.
Seems like some NJ high schools in poor areas are not doing so well.
https://www.greatschools.org/new-jersey/atlantic-city/44-Atlantic-City-High-School/
https://www.greatschools.org/new-jersey/camden/241-Camden-High-School/
https://www.greatschools.org/new-jersey/newark/7128-Newark-Prep/
https://www.greatschools.org/new-jersey/trenton/1967-Trenton-Central-High-School/
Seems contradictory. High COL and taxes with solid benefits but you’ll send your kid out of state? How is that beneficial?
Sure CC is “free” but at what cost? Higher cost flagships and state schools to where you have to send your kids out of state to college. Nothing is “free”.
Same as it ever was. Have and have nots. I wonder how a principal like Joe Clark would do today?
Of course there are schools that are not doing well, just like any other states. If you only look for garbage you will find them, no matter where you live.
@ UCB Why don’t you compare NJ average with other state average?
I think ucbalumnus was replying to this quote. Lower income HS do not get an equivalent education. I know from experience. Attended low income HS. Currently live in an affluent area with top HS. Huge difference. Grit and determination can overcome circumstances but it is much more difficult.
Which is it? Looking for garbage or lower income students don’t get less of an education? Maybe NJ averages are better but averages don’t always tell the entire story.
The PA regional publics are not doing so well. Some of it may be due to the declining population in western PA. Also wondering if the sorts of kids who used to go to PA regional universities from NJ are just staying in-state. Montclair, Rowan and TCNJ have invested in academics and in hiring faculty, as well as adding buildings.
As a parent of a child in a very good NJ school district, and as a professor at a regional university whose feeder high schools are lower performing, I can see firsthand that the variation in schools is quite stark. Since school districts are locally controlled town by town, and rely heavily on property taxes, the influence of parental income and education is magnified - much more than in states where the school districts may be county-wide.
PA Live births. See a trend? It’s not just western PA either. It’s all of PA. New Jersey has the same trend. It’s accelerating. Cities seem to be holding their own. Rural areas not so much. We don’t need as many schools and/or some of the resources need to shift.
2017 - 137,771 NJ - 101,159
2010 - 142,370
2005 - 145,033
2000 - 145,874
1995 - 150,848
1990 - 171,053 NJ - 123,125
https://www-doh.state.nj.us/doh-shad/indicator/complete_profile/BirthRate.html
@chmcnm I’m only suggesting that to provide college/training for the masses states should invest more in their cc’s. If DD went that route the first two years would likely be free or at full pay 5k/yr, the second two years at Stockton would likely cost around 25K each year. (14k room/board 11k tuition/fees w/merit) It’s extremely likely it would take only three years for a bachelors cutting the cost more. This is a really affordable choice our family.
However, my DD is interested in occupational therapy and know that a direct admit program would likely be the best and affordable way to accomplish her goal. It’s not the only way, however. I’ve done extensive research and the difficulty, expense, and time it takes to get in a graduate program is daunting. So 5 and a half years at a small liberal arts school in PA vs bachelors then hope for graduate school about 6 years. I can only pay so much in total for college and don’t want to saddle my kid with debt for a slightly above average income. If she wanted to be a teacher then absolutely we’d go the cc to Stockton route or engineering could do the cc to Rowan route.
@MistySteel27 I wasn’t knocking the $ cost of the education in NJ vs PA. Everyone has to work the best deal for their family. I’m criticizing the fact that parents must send their kids out of state for the best deal. I don’t see that as “beneficial”. As a parent and taxpayer I would always hope for my kids that my best and most affordable option should be in-state and reasonably close to home. Having to leave the state should be a choice, not a requirement. (and I do understand that technically some schools in PA are closer to home for NJ residents it’s just the principle).
From a policy standpoint, how should states meet this goal in sparsely populated lower income areas? Very small state universities in those areas can be inefficient, and not be able to offer the majors that students want. But then increasing FA to cover room and board at the larger state universities for those with no reasonable commute option (even if only for two years after starting at community colleges) would also cost money.
It didn’t eliminate the courses, only the majors. Students can still take Spanish and history, but the college has expanded its science and technology majors and since it hasn’t increased enrollment, it has to make some cuts to make room for new majors. It doesn’t make economic sense to have a entire department and issue 5 degrees per year. Some of the majors have been combined into more popular areas of study like American Studies. It is not in an area with a high Hispanic population. Spanish wasn’t even offered at the high school until the 1990s. Regional universities serve their regions.
The school is still strong in music, theater (very difficult admit), education, natural resources, sciences. It is also very affordable and has many scholarships available.
And it won the NCAA div.3 hockey championship last year.
My kids went to a middling HS–not even close to top 100 high school–in NJ and graduated from top colleges. Just heard a kid in the school was admitted to Princeton today. I do think that okay education in NJ is better than ok education in a lot of states. And yes, in the poorest districts, it’s an uphill fight against the socioecomic barriers and what they cause. But we’re waging it. And I’m fine with the taxes that support good education for as many as possible.
All schools in NJ are very well funded. Nobody has really solved the unequal results problem and I am pretty sure money is not the solution. Put kids from richer areas in those “bad schools” and watch the results soar in no time.
Many consider going to another part of the country for college a feature and a highly desirable one. The thought of going close to home makes me ill.
For Michigan and several other state flagships (Wisc, UVa, Colorado etc) having a large OOS tuition paying contingent is a key part of their business model.
Having that choice is often a privilege of winning the birth lottery of parental money.
Indeed. Poorly researched article. In about two seconds, I was able to pull up the grad numbers for MN high schools and they peaked in 2007 but have leveled off since then. Projected to peak again in ~2024. And as another posted mentioned, what about the UMinn and it’s campuses?