<p>^I don’t see D&D gaming as typical “college parties” as previous posters have referenced. Anyway, I’ve actually never played D&D but would love to try it out. XD</p>
<p>For me, the difference in BMC/HC and Barnard/Columbia is the gender ratio. Columbia is significantly larger than Barnard, which mitigates the imbalance. The ratio of BMC+HC is something ridiculous like 30% male. An “ideal consortium” is one where the students interact socially as one school, in which case the total gender ratio is relevant. I believe the 5C consortium is about 41% male, but Scripps and HMC (majority male) have an especially close relationship.</p>
<p>You might want to check out Barnard … Columbia is literally right across the street and A LOT of campus activities for the two schools are joint (meaning very coed) … in addition virtually all classes are open to students from both schools with no special sign-up process (you sign up for Columbia courses during your regular Barnard sign-up; the courses have a slightly different course code). There are sometimes limits on the number of students allowed to cross-register in a particular course … we’ve been told this is seldom an issue … my daughter has 2 Columbia courses among her 5 courses this fall. Personally I think the Barnard set-up is pretty amazing … you’re attending a LAC with the resourses of a big-time research University across the street and available … and the advantages of a women’s college with guys right across the street and integrated into your daily life.</p>
<p>No offense, Keilexandra, but it feels as if you’re being SUPER analytical about an issue that should be second-hand to the entire college decision-making process. Why don’t you apply to the schools that offer you the most benefits academically (which I hope is your main criteria)? Forget about it being in the best location, co-ed or not, whatever, and just look at what matters most?</p>
<p>Then, once you are admitted, you can evaluate how much you love the program, how much aid you’ve been given, what you want to gain professionally, and maybe, after all of that, look @ these ratios? Go with what feels gut-right, and don’t try to restrict yourself with statistical imbalances about parties or guys or gender issues. It’s all very constructed and unnatural. </p>
<p>Yes, college should definitely be a super fun time (I agree!), but I don’t think that any girl doesn’t have fun at a girl-only school where there are less men . . . I’m sure most of them find husbands, too, and attend whatever social events they can find. </p>
<p>You’re putting yourself in a box and you shouldn’t be.</p>
<p>I think Keilexandra is doing the hard research about where she would feel happy socially and also thrive academically.Sometimes the top school or major isn’t the best if your’e going to be unhappy…
~Starryskye</p>
<p>I guess what I’m trying to say is that basing the whole social aspect on really arbitrary statistics and word-of-mouth background, and then (maybe) not choosing a school because of it, feels really contrived because there’s never a way to know for sure. </p>
<p>I think the only way to do this kind of research you mention is to go and visit the school, maybe do an overnight, and get a sense for the community and the whole social aspect. Academics are much easier to judge because they’re objective (on the most part), whereas romantic prospects, partying, access to X/Y/Z socially, etc., is impossible.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to be harsh. Really. Maybe it’s because this is just one thread . . .</p>
<p>“Personally I think the Barnard set-up is pretty amazing … you’re attending a LAC with the resourses of a big-time research University across the street and available … and the advantages of a women’s college with guys right across the street …”</p>
<p>Agree with all of the above</p>
<p>“…and integrated into your daily life.”</p>
<p>The report I got from the trenches, however, is that the degree of integration is far from complete, due to not sharing dorms, some inter-college issues, and the overall prevailing M-F ratio, consequently the predominant feel one experiences there is that of an all-girls school.</p>
<p>Of course the integration is not complete and the feeling is that of a women’s college. Barnard is a women’s college, that’s a fundamental aspect of it’s character. If you want a fully integrated experience, you should attend a co-ed institution. </p>
<p>I think what people are trying to point out is not that any women’s college is or should be “fully integrated” (if it is, then it loses its character as a women’s college), but that attending a women’s college does not mean you are cloistering yourself away from any male presence and destroying your chances of ever having a fulfilling social life with the opposite sex.</p>
<p>wej - Sorry, but I know too many people who are in an ideal academic program with regrets about the social atmosphere. As you said in your “post-admit” advice, academics are not the only criteria; so what difference does it make in deciding before or after admittance? Why waste my time applying to a school where I wouldn’t be happy socially? Nor do I think that subjective aspects are “impossible” to judge from a distance; would you also advise international applicants to completely ignore social fit since the research will be useless?</p>
<p>
Please don’t misrepresent my position.</p>
<p>I’ve never thought of a women’s college as a convent. Far from it; that much is obvious. But is it harder than at an equivalent coed college? Certainly–and to different degrees at different schools. Even some coed schools with a skewed ratio might require more effort than a women’s college in an extremely close consortium (e.g. the Spelman/Morehouse relationship).</p>
From the perspective of a liberal arts student, 30% male may be about what you might expect at Barnard/Columbia. </p>
<p>The traditional liberal arts division of Columbia University is Columbia College, which had 2,045 men and 2,202 women in Fall 2008. Add another ~ 2,350 Barnard women, and you get about 31% male on the liberal arts side. </p>
<p>Granted, a difference between BMC/HC and Barnard/Columbia is that the latter is not restricted to liberal arts; Columbia also has the Fu School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, which is smaller but predominantly male (1,000 men and 461 women in 2008). Including SEAS, then collectively the ratio rises to nearly 38% male. However, my guess (which could be incorrect) is that students at Barnard students are more likely to have shared academic and social interests with those at Columbia College than those at Columbia SEAS.</p>
<p>Academic yes, social, depends how you look at it. Being respectively M & F can itself be a shared social interest. In practice I think SEAS is well represented there socially.
There’s also General Studies, and the grad school for that matter.</p>
<p>Th situation is probably a lot better than BMC/HC, but it still isn’t great.</p>
<p>Wow, didn’t know Barnard was so big. I thought it was more along Bryn Mawr’s size. But I do agree with monydad that SEAS shouldn’t be ruled out socially; after all, Scripps women seem quite inclined to date Harvey Mudd men, when the academic focuses of the two schools are practical opposites.</p>
<p>Based on enrollment figures for Fall 2008, there were a total of 9,943 undergrads at Barnard and Columbia. This includes all Columbia schools including SEAS (heavily male), Nursing (heavily female), and General Studies (slightly female). The overall gender breakdown was 6,116 female (61.5 %) and 3,827 male (38.5 %), or about 60 % more female undergraduates.</p>
<p>At the graduate and professional level, Columbia is almost equal overall (49% male, 51% female), although many specific programs are heavily tilted one way or the other.</p>
<p>The nursing students are not located anywhere near the main campuses, they are up with the medical school and dental school much further uptown. In a completely separate complex, and a completely separate world. They should not be included in your numbers. So far as I know they have no interaction with the undergrads at the main campus.</p>
<p>How you treat General Studies, and grad students, for this purpose could be interesting, because all these students are older than typical undergrads. and it remains true, I think, that older guys tend to date younger women but not as much vica versa. So from the social perspective of a Barnard student, the older guys in these programs may be more a source than the older women in these programs are a detriment. To the extent that they interact. Which would be nonzero but probably a lot less than the traditional undergrads. A sizable chunk of the older students may also be married.</p>
<p>You’re right about the nursing students; however, it turns out that the nursing school has relatively little impact on the overall numbers, due to the small size of the program.</p>
<p>For Barnard/Columbia College/SEAS undergrads alone, I get 62.3 % female.
Add in General Studies undergrads, and it drops slightly to 61.0 % female.</p>
My impression is that most of my daughter’s friends have been male and that the organized activities/clubs she has participated in were mostly at Columbia. I know she was an officer in a small organization for a year or more where the other 2 officers were guys who came from the same fraternity. Her first year, I’d see pictures posted on facebook from her dorm room that would be her, her roommate + 5 guys. </p>
<p>I do think you are right that the “feel” of the Barnard <em>campus</em> is an all-girl’s school - but the physical campus is very small. After the first year, the majority of students are probably living in Barnard housing that is off campus – and the “feel” is simply urban. As senior my daughter is living about 6 blocks from campus – she only has classes 2 days a week and so I think in a sense it feels more like being a commuter who lives nearby. </p>
<p>So as an observer I’d say that the real issue would be whether a student is comfortable with the urban environment. I do think that my d’s experience was impacted somewhat by the Nexus construction – for half of her time at Barnard there simply hasn’t been a good central place to hang out and socialize on the campus. Fortunately that is something that won’t be a factor for future students. </p>
<p>But as to the male/female thing, I do think it depends a lot on the individual. Given the urban environment, a student whose personal and social life is not centered on the campus will not necessarily feel cloistered.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why the concern. I had an uncountable number of dates while a traditional undergrad at a coed school and not one of those guys was a college student, [while I was dating them.] So, I don’t understand why the focus on dating, like it happens solely on campus.</p>
<p>Bryn Mawr is on the Main Line, with tons of other schools, and it’s also very close access to Philly. While many Main-Liners are a bit cold and it may take a little while to learn how to break the ice with them, it’s definitely not impossible. There’s a good number of young professional men in the immediate vicinity; I used to work very close to Bryn Mawr and I’d go to Genuardi’s(Safeway if you’re from Slower Lower like me.) for lunch and if I sat there for 15-20 minutes eating my lunch, usually at least once a week, I’d have a guy strike up a conversation with me.</p>
<p>Barnard’s in NYC, if you enjoy the city, I can’t imagine not meeting people there.</p>
<p>Smith/Mt Holyoke are near Boston, which has a huge concentration of 20-somethings.</p>
<p>etc…</p>
<p>I guess I don’t understand why we’re locked into thinking in the box that the population at the school/nearby school’s is the only dating pool. </p>
<p>*I should enter a bit of a disclaimer though, I’ve always had a lax attitude about dating. I’ve never really pursued it - it happens when it happens. I just did what I wanted to be doing, and was not worrying about the audience that brought, but I also have a hobby that used to be very male-dominated, so that doesn’t hurt my odds.</p>
<p>Smith/Mt. Holyoke are not near Boston. I went to Smith and I think I visited Boston twice in four years? A few more times if you count the trips that were just transiting through Boston’s South Station on my way to other places. I mean it’s not super far, it’s two hours away by bus. But with the kind of schedule most students keep, it’s way too far.</p>