<p>I posted this in the College Search & Selection Forum before, and somebody recommended that I post it here because there might be some parents whose children went to single-sex institutions. </p>
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<p>Last year, I got a lot of Smith propaganda in response to my high PSAT scores as a sophomore. Because it was a women's college, I initally discarded it because there were no boys. But the more I read about all women's colleges, it seems that there are many advantages. And I should keep an open mind.</p>
<p>I searched for other postings on this issue but couldn't find them. Maybe we could start a discussion that would cover both the pros and cons to single-sex education.</p>
<p>Also, I'd appreciate if somebody could put together some sort of list of women's colleges (and their locations) that are strong in the sciences. Extra points awarded to those with a biochemistry major, as that's my interest of the week!</p>
<p>You've found a Smith student on this board! mini's daughter goes here too even though I'm not sure who she might be... Our houses don't talk to each other anyway (rivalry).</p>
<p>Women's colleges are just like co-ed LACs. No difference there in terms of academics. More attention are focused on us women! I have discovered that professors at Smith love teaching here because they are amazed by our capabilities as women and they do strongly believe that women's colleges are the best way to educate a bunch of women. For example, when I considered dropping calculus, I told my calc prof that I was scared of going into classes because all the girls were SO smart and there were no boys to "dumb" the class down so I can be more comfortable with my math abilities. He was... literally shocked at my reaction to being in a math class with no guys. He thought I should be doing better because there are no males to pressure me as a female. Well, he was just speechless because he always thought this single-sex classroom tactic would work. Another example of professors loving teaching in a female-only classroom is my Russian lit prof. You can see him smiling and laughing at our comments and questions about stuff that we couldn't imagine talking in front of men intellectually such as cross-dressing and living life like a man (We were reading about a woman who dressed up as a soldier going into Napoleonic Wars). No one's embarassed. That's the point- no embarassment. The prof wants to talk about anything they want to and they want a mature feedback and we are just the perfect sort to be their audience. (I did drop calc- exchange it for this Russian lit class!!!)</p>
<p>The cons. Major drama. Extra estrogen around to deal with. You have to learn to desenitize yourself. Make sure that life really revolves around you so that no one will influence you in any way. Don't let that nervous breakdown down the hall get to you. Also, because women's colleges provides a very tolerant environment (except perhaps for Wellesley?), lesbians and bi-sexuals tend to be much more outspoken... that sometimes it feels like there's no place for a striaght girl to fit in. </p>
<p>Also another con- it is true that the literature tells you that you are their world. But the administration feels differently. It's very difficult for students to get a voice in certain issues. Usually it's the profs who value our opinions, administration needs your parents to call them up to justify your opinions. They're scared of parents anyway. LOL. But in all, you do learn to figure out how much it takes to get what YOU want because of women's colleges' leadership education that they give you.</p>
<p>Don't worry about guys. They love coming to women's colleges because they know that's the easiest way to pick up chicks! But sometimes you do have to go out there yourself to find your guy.</p>
<p>I would start looking at Smith and Bryn Mawr as I know they have very strong science programs. My roommate is a pre-med major and just loves her lab work. The math and science departments like to emphasize group collaborations because they believe that's how the world runs. With the strength of the bio department, you can't go wrong by becoming a biochem major- just major time commitment (around 15 courses/60 credits). Smith is in process of creating a new building for the chemistry department= New, bigger lab spaces!!!</p>
<p>If you have any more questions, just e-mail me!!!</p>
<p>May I put in a good word for Wellesley College, my alma mater?! With cross-registration at MIT, you have double the science opportunities. Plus, students can serve as research assistants to professors on campus.</p>
<p>Let me add to TMP's comments on a couple of things. Yep, extra estrogen. D hasn't found it problematic but it's there.</p>
<p>When she started seriously considering Smith, there were two big questions. The first was whether Northampton was big enough for her...passed with flying colors.</p>
<p>The second TMP broaches, something I'm not wild about wading in to but is valid: the question of how a straight girl fits in. Depending on the survey, Smith is between 20 and 35 percent gay/bi, and the gay contingent is very vocal, which may magnify the sense of their absolute numbers. D is gay-tolerant and I'd say you have to be to be comfortable at Smith. The question in her mind was whether she, as a straight girl, be accepted and comfortable. When I raised the question on this board 2+ years ago, I got a long thoughtful e-mail from the parent of a then-first-year at Smith that was very positive and offering to put my D in touch with her D, an offer we accepted when it was time to visit. I'll forward the e-mail to anyone who's interested, substituting an offer to meet my D instead. D spent an overnight on Smith on two occasions, both her initial pre-application visting the April before she applied and again on Open Campus when she was deciding between Smith and Wellesley. She was completely comfortable with her experiences and went on to enroll. </p>
<p>Negatives: I do know of one extremely ugly incident that happened between a Smith student and a prospective student during Open Campus. It's not generally public knowledge and while I don't know the specific outcome due to privacy issues, the administration came down on the student with a ton of bricks and I don't know if she's even there anymore. And when D was without Internet access for a month, I was reading one of the Smith message boards for her and one of the more poignant posts was from a girl who was bi and said she felt she wasn't straight enough for the straights and not gay enough for the gays...I felt sad for her.</p>
<p>My gut feel is that these issues are everywhere, however, and that Smith being what it is the issues are simply more out in the open. (It doesn't hurt that it seems the major Smith avocation is discussing and arguing.) For instance, the ugly incident could have just as easily been in a heterosexual plane at a party at co-ed school.</p>
<p>A couple of other comments that are at least tangential: D has a friend from South Carolina who said, "I thought I was a liberal until I came here." And D has been known to roll her eyes about the degree of PC...someone actually apologized to her about it the day after an argument in the house where my D disagreed with the standard PC position...but it doesn't get to her much at all.</p>
<p>So there you have one parental take (and one student take as filtered by said parent).</p>
<p>I completely agree with the South Carolinan- I knew i was liberal, I knew the campus was liberal... but come to Smith, wow. My conservative friend describes the liberals "wackos." They truly are- makes me wonder if there's a limit of how liberal a person can be!</p>
<p>My D has always been a moderate but her high school is very liberal, to the extent that Nader got more votes than Bush in the 2000 mock election. She's pretty used to being the relative moderate in a very liberal environment. She would be a flaming liberal at many schools...but not Smith. It's all relative. Of course, the cosmic joke is that in our community, I'm a relative conservative. Major LOL.</p>
<p>There's an old joke that translates from Portugal: this is my left hand, the other is my far left hand.</p>
<p>TMP, btw, what do you think of the notion that the major Smith avocation being discussing and arguing?</p>
<p>[Edit: and I just realized in the other thread that you're not who I thought you were. Ooops. My bad. Major egg on face.]</p>
<p>Mini, neither you or you D fits into orthodox labels (or even Reformed) and this is a compliment. I think your D brings a really good kind of diversity to the Smith population.</p>
<p>Hey---
Sorry to butt in yall, but theDad, if you could please send the email about straight girls at Smith along my way, I'd be very grateful. (Sorry, tried to PM but that was disabled on your account.)
Also, I just wanted to say that I've read this thread/the other thread about women's colleges and found them both very informative. Thank you, posters!</p>
<p>I guess I will have to wade into the mire here. I will not get into the reasons of why our daughter choose Wellesley over Smith, Bryn Mawr, MT. Holyoke or other co-ed schools. It is too long a story, and I really don't want to dwell on negatives. I do want to mention that for her Wellesley has been a wonderful experience. She is a Biological Sciences/Pre-Med major who was accepted into the Wellesley College Dancers ( dancing is her major method of stress relief), is active in the campus ministry and has a roommate to die for. She and her friends have taken advantage of the MIT/Harvard connection and they are dating guys from those schools and not feeling the "disadvantage" of being with men on campus.
We were lucky to be able to sit in on several classes during Family Weekend and we so impressed with the level of education our daughter is getting.
The gay/bi thing....
I am sure there is an element of this at Wellesley, as there is at ALL schools, but on the surface it seems non-existant, and for my daughter and her friends it is simply not a problem at all. My guess is even though Wellesley is PC, it doesn't promote or dwell on the issue.
Being close to Boston has been a major plus, for a young lady who loves the symphony, ballet and other cultural events.
The reason for this post.... if a young lady is seriously considering a single-gender college...give Wellesley a long look.
Also, the campus is one of the most beautiful in the country with a new Wang Student Center opening in 2005. It promises to be awesome!</p>
<p>Megsdad, good to see you here. I've read your posts and it's good to see that your D is doing well at Wellesely. My D still wears the pink Smith sweatshirt you sent her and your kindness is much appreciated.</p>
<p>hey_la, I'm not sure why a PM didn't go through. It's enabled in my Profile and I have received several PM's in the past week or so. Anyway...check your e-mail. If you don't receive anything, holler again here.</p>
<p>I'm slinking surreptitiously onto the Parent's Forum because I find the advice given very informative. Hi! :) I'm really quite afraid to talk to my dad about schools since he's twice as nervous as I am about the admissions process...</p>
<p>I'm actually applying to both Wellesley and Smith, and this thread is very interesting. I'm particularly intrigued by tickle's ancedote about the intimidated girl. Research has shown that high school high-scorers are skewed gender-wise, towards girls. However, I'm not sure if this is the case in college, where people start to shape up. Generally, are women's colleges more or less competitive academically than co-ed? </p>
<p>Tebro, I can't answer your question globally. The picture I get about both Smith and Wellesley is that most of the competition is strictly internal to one's self. In academics.</p>
<p>What is missing is the social/status/dress competition and general bitchiness that apparently can erupt among women in co-ed situations. Hair, make-up, clothing are whatever priorities you make it for yourself and nobody walks around with designer purses. (The last being true at Smith...can't answer for W.)</p>
<p>When I had a tour at Bryn Mawr, the tourguide said they have an Honor Code, which also applies to grades. Basically you're not supposed to talk about grades, so you don't know who is doing better or worse than you. So I think it's like TheDad said, you compete academically, but only against yourself, not other students.</p>
<p>Back in my high school, there were a LOT of really smart women in math/science classes (more than men ally) so it wasn't like I needed more female support. So I was just so amazed. I'm not a particular <em>strong</em> math/science person and I just find myself unable to achieve the levels that they have already established- to go above and beyond men's capabilities. It's quite hard for me to gauge the men's strength in those areas where women already have blown the "competition" away... early. I don't know. I just didn't feel comfortable being surrounded by amazing women in traditionally-male fields because it takes a lot of guts and brains to it. I have the guts- just not the brains!</p>
<p>True that most of us don't care... certainly, there is no pressure to shop at Abercrombie! But some of us do carry designer bags and wear designer scarfs (have seen quite few burberry ones).</p>
<p>As regard to high school scores in favor of women- remember, men don't mature until college!</p>
<p>TMP, it could be that, like a rattlesnake, I didn't recognize designer bags when I walked by. I recognize Louis Vuitton (sp?) and Prada but I'm not sure I'd recognize a Burberry if it bit me. There we are...back to the rattlesnake again....</p>
<p>I <em>can</em> say that Smith felt signficantly more dressed down than W. Correlate with Mini's post on the 30 percent difference of students receiving financial aid, i.e., 30 percent more whose families can write a check for $40+ K per year.</p>
<p>Someone mentioned cross-registration at MIT. If this is important to you, I suggest checking to see how feasible this is currently. When we looked at Wellesley last year several students there mentioned that MIT had changed the timing of their courses recently, in a way that made it more difficult for Wellesley students to take courses there due to timing issues. I didn't pursue it and don't know the details.</p>
<p>I actually applied ED to Wellesley this fall (hear in a few days) and am now scared about my decision. At the very last minute (Nov 1) I was deciding between Wells and a larger co-ed university (both applications were done, I was literally standing in front of the mailbox making this decision-I was intent on applying ED because these two schools were the ONLY TWO I wanted to go to). I'm biting my nails waiting for the decision of course, but now I'm scared about lack of social life. I consider myself very social, so now I'm worried I've made the biggest mistake of my life (if I get in). Help!!! This has caused lots of teenage angst...and god knows my parents don't need more of that. For their sakes, any advice? PS I hope its ok that I'm posting here, but the Wellesley board isn't getting a lot of traffic.</p>
<p>It's okay. Just relax. What you're feeling is all normal and that will continue... to.. well for another year when you finish your first semester :) Give it a shot anyway unless you have that little teeny voice that's telling you otherwise. </p>
<p>You will definitely get lots of social life going into Boston and going to MIT for parties. You will find women in groups going off campus to find social life I'm sure :) Work hard from Sunday to Thursday and then party hard! If anything, women are better at socializing then men.</p>
<p>Skeptical, look at it this way: if you're <em>rejected</em> from Wellesley, then all your eggs are in the one remaining basket. I agree with TMP, relax: Wellesley students have plenty of social life from all that I here. There's a 90-minute time penalty (round-trip transportation) getting into Boston but people make it work. And the Wellesely people who have been on this board have indicated that there's plenty to do on campus.</p>