I am concerned about campus racism due to recent events in the news there. I wonder if you could address this topic. I was interested in Vanderbilt for my younger daughter who wants pre-med but was horrified after reading what is going on at the university hospital with Dr. Eugene Gu. He took a knee to protest white supremacy on twitter and a patient who recognized him, complained and a day later he was placed on leave. I’ve found his treatment to be racist. Whether Vandy is consevatative or liberal, our family has no tolerance for an institution that is racist. Do you have any insight as to what is going on with that?
@hsseniormom : That isn’t racism IMHO, though as an outsider, I do not particularly respect their decision. I do suspect other institutions even at more progressive institutions would have made the same decision. Medicine is known for pretty hardcore standards of professionalism and a focus on image and political neutralism. Those institutions typically do not tolerate those types of political statements ESPECIALLY if it offends a patient or anyone.
Instead of worrying about that, I would look into what places are great for “pre-med” which is not a major. Perhaps find out what major your daughter may be interested in and figure out if Vanderbilt or somewhere else is actually good in those areas beyond just being a top school with a medical center so assuming it is good. In addition, professional schools tend to function in a bubble and are unlikely to be a reflection of what she will experience as an undergraduate. Vanderbilt for undergraduate appears fairly progressive and social justice oriented (at the student body and like other places, there is evidence that the administration tries hard), even if not as intensely liberal as other southern elites or other non-Jesuit/Catholic (hint). I wouldn’t characterize it as “racist” and if you are truly worried about that, please cross off basically every other top 30 or so institution because they all have environments and administrative structures that may integrate or perpetuate at least some subtle racism even if unintentional.
A bit unfair to target VU med and then use it as a proxy for how their undergraduate units function. Also a reach to extrapolate racism from that incident, and this comes from a person who sympathizes with the “kneelers”. I would take no such risks if I were in a professional setting, especially somewhere affiliated with medicine/clinical work. That culture and its standards are very well known.
I suspect there is more to the story. I agree it has nothing to do with the undergraduate university or racism. This is an employee and employer issue. Physicians are trained to be professional and required to be non-judgmental so they do not offed ANY of their patients. A pro-life Catholic physician can’t make a women seeking an abortion feel uncomfortable and can’t protest in the hospital. A physician against illegal immigration must treat illegal immigrant patients with respect and not make them feel uncomfortable. A physician walking around any hospital making patients feel unwelcome, for any reason, will not last very long and a surgery resident doing this will be given “an opportunity” to become a family doctor.
@bud123 : It is very simple. A medical school or clinical setting is just not likely to tolerate that. Period.
The pro-life thing…there are honestly more likely places where that is tolerated (and may be borderline state mandated/encouraged), so it isn’t the best analogy. The others are fine.
@bud123. It’s put a bad mouth in our mouth as a family so for the moment, it’s off our list. But if anyone has more insight, I’d be interested to hear. I want to be fair and balanced about my judgement.
Again, this sounds like an employer-employee issue. Also, unlikely one event would lead to his situation. He states no other university hospital wants to hire him either. That would add another couple of hundred schools to take off your list. Just saying perhaps there is more to the story no one knows about that have nothing to do with his views and beliefs. We have no idea of about his performance in his job. So don’t limit your options over a isolated situation that may (or may not) be a valid termination.
This seems to be a complex story, and we are receiving a rather one-sided account due to VUMC’s decision to be tight-lipped on the issue. From what I understand, it seems that the leave and probation were largely caused by a past tweet he posted in which he accused a “chief resident” of assault, at least according to the probation letter which he later posted. His twitter followers went on to basically dox and harass the current general surgery chief residents, who he later stated that he misidentified (“I called him a chief resident when I should have called him the senior-most resident. It doesn’t even matter,” Gu said, (can provide source)). Basically, it appears likely that it was largely due to being engaged in a contentious/dramatic peer relationship at work (although the aforementioned second tweet is another entire potential issue/criticism of VUMC).
These postings are two of many in a longer history of high-profile social media presence (apparently, he’s one of the individuals who is now suing Trump for blocking him on twitter), and this situation probably wasn’t helped by his history of not following social media policies. I’m guessing VUMC would be fine with posting the kneeling photo, or otherwise engaging publicly with contemporary political discussions, but HR asked that he more explicitly specify that these views were his own in his twitter bio (since he’s posting these at work with his badge on), which he has pretty clearly refused, citing twitter character limits. (If you’re curious about the exact twitter postings I can provide sources). He also had a California congressperson send a letter on his behalf to VUMC demanding he be permitted to transfer out of the program (back in 2016). Overall, it’s clear that he’s had a long negative relationship with VUMC.
He seems to have been the subject of a fair bit of discussion on SDN and elsewhere:
just google “SDN resident-put-on-leave-for-protesting-white-supremacy-also-assaulted-at-work”
and “reddit tennesseedoctorsuspendedovertwitter_photo/”
With specific postings from a supposed fellow resident:
search “reddit /u/anondoc123” and look at past comments.
Although these sources certainly have to be taken with a large grain of salt, it seems pretty clear that there’s a good bit of missing context. I don’t mean to invalidate his experience, but everything combines to paint a picture of an individual resident who is engaged in a surprising number of very strange situations (experiencing racism/bullying because nurses were putting milk cartons on his desk?) that constitute a pattern. He could just be a particularly unlucky individual, but I end up feeling skeptical that it’s a systemic issue.
Regardless, the above post is correct in that undergrad experience is not remotely affected by VUMC. Even for hardcore premeds their experience is limited to checkbox-y shadowing or maybe research with clinical faculty.
@fdgjfg Thank you so much for the information you provided.
Clearly there is a great deal more to the story, and you should consider that hospital has confidentiality restraints. Honestly, hsseniormom, I would respectfully recommend that you read up on all the short list of your student’s colleges but withhold such judgments till you find out where you are offered admission. Then you go in person and let your eyes and ears and instincts guide you on where your student will thrive.
I had a freshman son at Duke the spring that the lacrosse incident created cringe-worthy, horrific reporting night after night for…years. There was no vindication for the accused quickly. He graduated Duke with an incredibly diverse friendship circle and plenty to think about due to the Morality Play taking place on grounds daily. (Yes, the prosecutor was incredibly dirty and is now disbarred and the accused were innocent of all charges and those who charged them…had deep criminal and in one case mental health issue records). Nevertheless…the “party” itself was the first mistake, and the entire campus condemned their Division One sports teams on a privileged campus who planned a deplorable “party” that also cost their beloved coach his job. The consequences were rivetting and came in waves. The main accuser was later convicted of murder. Nevertheless. What a morality play it was.
We also were there when the President of the Student Body of Chapel Hill was murdered along with a Duke graduate student. After Vandyson left Nashville, we had a rape trial of Vanderbilt football players. Oh and there was a very (IMHO) specious lotta Fox news coverage on how Vanderbilt was anti-Christian that was pretty idiotic and was totally distorted in reporting.
Where are you going to go that isn’t vulnerable to the clash of ideas that brings racial, class and social justice issues front and center on campus. I used to dream of my sons on the campuses of America’s most socially progressive liberal arts colleges --and they were admitted to Swarthmore, Haverford and others that were ahead of the curve on progressive movements in our nation’s history. However they chose larger campuses in the end and preferred the bigger messier playgrounds for their formative years. (also we really couldn’t afford our Estimated Cost of Attendance at those fine small colleges without merit money to be honest).
Would you deny your student an application to the University of Virginia based on the totally discredited Fraternity Rape reporting published in Rolling Stone not long ago, accusations from a sadly disturbed young woman? The story rolled the campus, outraged alum, threatened the employment of administrators and created a national discussion-- as it should have–but it was a false story. Speaking of Charlottesville…!! my adult friends are there in harmony with the University fighting the good fight.
If you put your mind to it, and read up, as you should, really…you should unearth the social questions or scandals on every campus you are considering but keep an open mind. Would you not apply to Chapel Hill because they had a scandal with the basketball team’s academic track? To Baylor because of their recently exposed coverups of sexual misconduct on sports teams? Their President Ken Starr was fired. These are all things parents should know and ponder.
My Vandy son was white but he was also a Chancellor’s Scholar. Take a gander at that application page if your student is going to apply for merit dollars at college. Look at their webpages and consider the Ingram Scholars. Consider the beauty of Vanderbilt’s residential college plan for freshmen and beyond that is similar to Rice’s exemplary community. Difficult to do in city real estate but this is the commitment and the vision. Look at Vandy’s residential college freshman campus. Consider Nashville, one of the finest and liveliest 3rd coast cities in our country. I lived in Nashville twice and my husband has a graduate degree from Vandy. Back in the 80s…Vandy undergrad would have been too preppy and conventional and conservative for me to feel at home. What a difference 30 years has made. Profound change, total devotion and intentional Trustees-- and the $ to back up their commitment to educating an economically, geographically and racially diverse talent pool in this nation. There are zero loans in financial need packages. Thus the over 30 thousand applications. It is an exciting time at Vanderbilt, a truly exciting time. The faculty and the administration are devoted to creating a campus that will shine in our nation. It is also wonderful to have the graduate schools all around the 6000 undergrads. In all honesty, Vanderbilt Hospital is a great good, a regional jewel, and the graduate schools have always been very progressive.
My liberal Vandy son only applied because when the recession hit the fall of his senior year, we realized we could not send him $$ to the liberal arts schools where we would pay full freight. His words to me were “I will apply to Vanderbilt, Mom, out of respect for what “you say you know”…but it is at the bottom of my list.” He imagined a campus that was…well, like the 80s. Or the 50s. On Accepted Student Day, he retreated to his hotel room for a while and then he placed phone calls and sent emails to decline every other offer. Fit is a personal thing and seniors in high school are changelings.
I think all posters in this thread hope that your student will also have a clear decision when April comes around…and a community that is vibrant and an exciting better than “good enough” fit. No college will have it all. Every college has a history of failings and triumphs. Even so, the colleges in our country…small and large, are beacons.