Wondering

Athletic Recruits
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<p>It probably will all work out for the best. But a coach telling a recruit in May or June to announce to the world that they are committed to Ivy X basically wants to take that recruit ‘off the market’ so to speak. There are still hurdles to clear before the LL arrives in the fall or winter that are out of the coach’s hands, and while coach may be confident that it will work out - the recruit has a lot more to lose than the coach if it doesn’t.</p>

<p>I’m not trying to add to your apprehension, believe me, I remember the wait for the LL to be agonizing. I just want to put it out there for future recruits.</p>

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<p>If you have spent anytime on this site you know that somehow, someway somebody gets burned with Ivy League verbal committments every year. There is little doubt in my mind that it will happen again this year. The advice given here (in this thread) is free, but it is also priceless. The best your son or daughter can do is protect themselves is by keeping an open & honest dialogue with other schools that want him or her. All the risk is yours until you receive a Likely Letter, Early Admissions letter or release from your verbal committment. This is really no different from verbal committments at any Division 1 school…until you sign that NLI is is official. Coaches sometimes over commit with recruits for various reasons. Protect yourself, please.</p>

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<p>keep your options open. reply to all the coaches that make contact but engage as much as possible the two or three coaches/teams that are your top choices. Building relationships and showing interest only strengthens your position if things get dicey in the fall, as mayhew points out, it’s not a done deal until it’s done, $%#t happens.</p>

<p>Engage by giving the coach any athletic or academic updates that are noteworthy, a big win on a summer team, a national merit award, etc…but at the same time be cool, don’t pester the coach recruiting you. And the athlete should only be interacting with the coach, not the parent.</p>

<p>good luck! </p>

<p>oh, and take officials, I was blown away at the human development experience my daughter had by having schools such as HYPS send her airplane tickets and pick her up at the airport. talk about a life experience and a self esteem boost!</p>

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<p>Believe me, I know things can go wrong. It’s my business. However, there is a problem on this board relating to this issue known as an “availability heueristic” which is basically a cognitive bias that makes stories like mayhews seem common and likely when, in fact, they are uncommon and unlikely. Like worrying about airplane crashes when you’re about 80 times more likely to die in a car wreck. Yes, definitely someone gets screwed with regard to these verbal commitments and promises of likely letters every year. It might even be my kid this year. And if it is she’ll be fine. HYP, hype whatever. But for every all-american, all state, nms, 8 AP, 1490 SAT, 780 average SAT II, AI over 220 kid that this doesn’t work out for there are about 1600-2000 that it does. Sheesh. My kid entered a contract – one that she’s perfectly well aware is controlled by the coach (yes, DA trumps AD, but if a helmet sport coach can’t get whom he/she wants or doesn’t know who he/she can get in and makes promises in January that can’t be kept in Oct. then coach won’t be there long) and she’s honoring it. She refuses to go against the coach or back on her word. I’m very proud. And if she gets the shaft she will have learned a lesson that is far more valuable than an Ivy league degree. Then she’ll just walk on somewhere.</p>

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<p>We may have different views about the nature of the contract between a recruit and the ivy league coach. In this regard, the Ivy League rules provide:</p>

<ul>
<li>An Ivy coach may both inquire about a candidate’s level of commitment to an Ivy institution, or interest in attending that Ivy institution, and encourage that interest. However, a candidate may not be required to make a matriculation commitment, to withdraw other applications, or to refrain from visiting another institution, as a condition for receiving a “likely” letter, or an estimate of financial aid eligibility, or a coach’s support in the admissions process. In addition, coaches may not request that candidates not share estimates of financial aid eligibility with other schools.</li>
</ul>

<p>Even at the time of granting of the likely letter, it is considered to be binding only on the university. I am not sure what type of contract is made during the junior year of school.</p>

<p>Moreover, please note that, if you ask them, the coaches will tell you that every so often, even after the academic pre-reading, the admissions office will not grant an LL. THis is even where a better candidate has not shown up. Among other things, sometimes a bad recommendation of which the athlete is unaware can sabotage everything. </p>

<p>It would therefore seem to make sense, not to abandon all contact with other coaches at this time, but rather to let them know that you have another front runner. Some coaches will turn to other candidates, but some will hang on as they know that LLs sometimes go awry.</p>

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<p>^^^doubtful, I believe that you are right, in that the majority of recruiting commitments go through, and have relatively little drama. I wish you the very best of luck, and I know next to nothing about helmut sports and the recruiting timetable and process related to them.<br>
I am going to share our story, not to scare anyone, but to show what can happen (& hopefully won’t happen to anyone reading this!) Our experience was surely quite unusual, and involved way more drama than we ever anticipated.<br>
The facts for us, in a sport that is not a helmet sport, were that my daughter was one of the top Div. 1 recruits in the country for her sport. She was offered something like 15 OV invitations. It felt like “an embarrassment of riches”, and she took all 5 allowed, to HYP and others. She verbally committed to a non-LL school, that intended to accept all its recruits EA. In doing so, she walked away from 4 potential ivy LLs and a full athletic scholarship offer from a D1 she did not take an OV with. The school she had committed to was fully aware of this, and my husband and I had multiple conversations with the coach, who continued to assure us not to worry, “I always get my top choices through”, assured us that everything was OK with admissions, etc. Well, suffice to say, that on the day EA notifications came out, my daughter, along with several other recruits, was not “in” - it was definitely the worst moment of my daughter’s life, and to say that we were stunned would be an understatement. The coach could only tell us how “heartbroken” they were, couldn’t understand what happened, etc. The “why?” really didn’t matter to us - the fact that it happened was all we needed to know. However, one good thing my daughter had done all along was keep in touch with a few coaches, responding to their emails throughout the whole process. She was open and direct; everyone knew where she had committed. The very next day, after this horrible news, she was back in touch with some coaches who had kept in touch with her. The news of what happened to her, along with the other girls in her same position, was becoming widespread amongst the coaches in this sport. What happened was highly unusual. Less than a week later, she had the firm offer of a LL from an ivy, followed by another LL offer and a non-ivy offer. That made Christmas a lot more relaxing! Then, out of left field came the one ivy that had never recruited her, and they wanted to move very quickly. They had heard of what happened to her, and wanted her. She was very excited about that opportunity due to the strength of the team. We wanted her to use her recruiting potential to gain access to an excellent school, and she wanted to be on the best team possible - this was a perfect mix of both. In less than a week, they had a LL in the mail to her. Immediately after the LL went in the mail, she was contacted by an ivy that had been her 1st choice all summer (before her OV to school she committed to) - she stood by her word, and told them she had just accepted a LL from another.
She is fully aware of how fortunate she is - there are several girls who were also let down after committing to the same school that let my daughter down, and some of those girls were not as fortunate, for RD spots are far, far fewer - some of them are taking gap years this coming year, and going through the process all over again.
Our story ended very happily, with my daughter firmly believing that there is a reason she will be attending this school, and joining this team, as 6 months ago, they were never a part of our equation. We could not be happier for her to be joining the #1 team in the country! So many valuable lessons were learned, and the strengths that got her through were her reputation for being direct and honest with all coaches throughout the entire process; keeping coach relationships open throughout the whole process; not allowing herself to be knocked down by what felt like- was - an awful betrayal of trust and faith; and holding no bitterness towards any school, team or coach. In the worst moments, we were never prouder of our daughter. To us, and to the coaches she knows, she exemplified true grace under pressure.
I certainly hope that no one else on this board experiences anything like this during this recruiting year. I suppose this is a cautionary tale with a very happy ending. We know how unusual this was, and many coaches were appalled by what happened to us, letting us know how rare it is. It is not typical, and I really, really don’t mean to be a “downer” by sharing this. However, it does happen - we are proof of that. Now we are happily moving on, looking ahead with excitement to her upcoming experience as a student-athlete.
I suppose the moral of this story is: maintain a reputation for honesty & integrity (something my daughter was complimented for again and again), keep your head held high and maintain resilience, and don’t burn any bridges.</p>

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<p>Doubtful, I believe you are right - the probability of something going wrong during the recruiting process is fairly slim for an all-american caliber athlete with an AI over 220. There is a risk v. reward issue, though. Your daughter is taking a risk by publicly declaring her commitment and ending communication with other schools. Where’s the reward? Certainly a spot will still be available for a high AI, national caliber athlete even if they take the time to do their ‘due diligence’, official visits, etc.</p>

<p>Also you mention contracts and promises. I realize a contract can be verbal as well as written, but I’m curious as to the verbiage the coach used in promising her a spot on the team.</p>

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<p>Wow, Mayhew and I used the same opening line - simultaneous post</p>

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<p>Hi doubtful,</p>

<p>It’s completely possible for your daughter to keep her word to the coach, and to keep her options open: she just needs to be honest with the back-up plan coaches. IMO the “lesson” kids should be learning in all of this is that they can and must stick to their commitments, but they must also go through life with their eyes wide open and that there are respected and honorable ways to hold options open as long as need be.</p>

<p>Mayhew’s story is not as unusual as you might imagine. It’s just that most people don’t admit to the trajectory, and then take the time and emotional energy to share their pain. Mayhew, you’re going to save someone from a sickening roller coaster ride this year. Thanks again.</p>

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<p>“it was definitely the worst moment of my daughter’s life”</p>

<p>so sorry</p>

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<p>Mayhew’s story shows that if you’re seriously interested in a D1 non-Ivy school, it is advisable to push for a national letter of intent during the early signing period. That way you have your answer before even the early LLs become an issue, and you don’t have to wait until EA decisions. As it is, the ivies have an advantage over D1 schools because athletes can have their LL in hand already early October.</p>

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<p>I don’t know why you would be proud of your daughter for making a commitment just for the sake of making one. I think it is crazy, sorry. It’s so important, and sorry, the coaches are “overly optimistic” at times.
Missing out on a fabulous education because someone in authority with power misleads you when it is preventable with some care is not a life lesson I’d want my child to learn.
Most of the time it all works out, but why take a chance?</p>

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<p>Oldbatesie, you said what I meant to say in a much clearer way. Thanks.</p>

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<p>beenthere2: You are absolutely right, to push for an early signing of a NLI. In our case, the non-ivy D1 in question was clear that they were planning on a spring signing of a NLI. Based on the excellent reputation of this “elite” school, and since almost all the other recruits were doing the same thing, we didn’t contest that schedule. Needless to say, that is a lesson learned for us!</p>

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<p>OBD and riverrunner – thanks you guys for calling me crazy and for telling me not to be proud of my kid for displaying integrity and for being mature enough as a 17 year old to realize that it really doesn’t matter if you go to HYPS or the NESCAC as there are many, many really fine schools that she can get into and be happy and play her sport with or without “the hook”. I know that’s heresy on CC, but while we think HYPS and Midd are great schools, we also think it’s actually more about what you do while you’re in school rather than where you go. Would you also advise young women to play the field right up until they say “I now pronounce you man and wife” because until you’ve got that ring you’ve got no-thing. Ha!. In my group I’ve got every Ivy League school represented and 3 NESCAC and it’s amazing that out of about 40 of us only 5 have sent or are sending their kids to these high ranking schools. Obviously not every kid has the stats for admission, but a lot of the kids who do and get in still choose to go elsewhere – and they do great ( I-Banking from U of Oregon and Fordham, who knew!). My partners are proud of their education and liked their schools, but I think they realize that they aren’t “all that”. So that influences us too. Like Frankie sings, she did it her way. And I can be proud of that because that is integrity and that is who she is. You really shouldn’t tell any parent when to be proud of their incredibly high achieving kids, 'k Dr. D? Such a small world.</p>

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<p>doubtful, I wasn’t questioning your or anyone else’s choices for schools- it’s all about the fit.</p>

<p>I would just encourage athletic recruits to keep their options open as long as possible. This is true for both sides of the equation: coaches continue to talk to a much longer list of prospects than they have room for, right up until the roster is officially full. It’s not unethical, just the right thing to do, since circumstances change, kids change their minds, coaches come and go, and so on.</p>

<p>No one is questioning your daughter’s integrity here, just pointing out to you and others who may be reading this that the other point of view on this is that families can have integrity AND entertain simultaneous conversations about college choices with coaches. There are some generally-accepted moments when the commitment is clear and the shopping stops: receipt of the LL is one. </p>

<p>I think “shopping” is a better analogy than dating. It’s OK to try on a lot of shoes right up until the purchase. Future mates, not so much…</p>

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<p>While stuff happens, quite frankly, I can’t imagine any coach telling a recruit that it’s ok to go public, only later to have to backtrack. Word travels, and I’m sure that the school in Mayhew’s story will face some tough questions this year.</p>

<p>Again, if it’s a non-ivy D1 school, try to go for an early NLI (that means that at some schools, everything is done a lot earlier than September). For either school, ivy or other D1, I would advice any recruit to ask a coach where exactly s/he stands on the coach’s and how many are basically guaranteed admission.</p>

<p>Finally, for the OP, just make sure that the application is completed and submitted on September 1 (if that’s the first day), including letters of recommendation. The LL should be in the mail box the first week of October, perhaps with a phone call even earlier. If that’s not the case, there’s still time to contact the other coaches.</p>

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<p>^^i agree with river. recruiting has a duality quality to it. my daughter “committed” in May to a coach but also told two other coaches they too were top choices. and they were, but just not the top. all three coaches knew of her selections and all three coaches knew each other well. and two knew if the #1 choice fell through they would have a 50/50 chance to get her. and she truly liked all three and meant what she said to them, that she’d love to go to their team/school.</p>

<p>you can have integrity and keep your options open. and i recommend recruits do this.</p>

<p>also, the three coaches where doing the same to her, we love you too but can’t promise you that you are in until admissions says yes.</p>

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<p>“While stuff happens, quite frankly, I can’t imagine any coach telling a recruit that it’s ok to go public, only later to have to backtrack. Word travels, and I’m sure that the school in Mayhew’s story will face some tough questions this year”</p>

<p>as far as i know this didn’t happen in mayhew’s daughter’s situation. what did happen was some of the the coaches top picks, who in the past were always admitted, were not admitted this time. but i doubt the coach ever said “you’re in for sure”, in fact i bet the coach finished every “my recruits have always gotten in” sentence with “but admissions admits you not me”.</p>

<p>still though a raw deal for mayhew’s daughter. i can’t imagine the disappointment, the disbelief.</p>

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<p>Doubtful, I don’t know why you get so angry. We are really sincerely trying to help. We also ALL hope your daughter gets her top choice and it all goes well. And of course you don’t need to pay any attention to our advise.</p>

<p>We take the time to post and answer questions because we have an altruistic desire to help others from our own experiences. My S nearly got his “worst day of his life” from Williams. I don’t see any downside for them.What can we do? I’m not going to re-summarize the entire sad episode, but it’s horrible to see your child get so hurt and so disillusioned at that tender age. Luckily CCers gave us the advise we needed, and all the bridges were not burnt.</p>

<p>And please don’t malign my morals. I didn’t attack yours. i am still married to my first husband…</p>

<p>Of course there are lots of other great schools, and no one needs to attend “one” certain school. But when your child has been “promised” by a cordial coach, and you’ve spent the last 3 months trying to get them to look at other options, it’s really awful. I don’t think it made my child stronger, or a better person. Luckily he didn’t hit the “send” button on the ED application, and there were still other coaches he had stayed in contact with-even to tell them-"I have my top choice, but if it doesn’t work out…"I don’t see anything “unethical” in that.</p>