<p>PSY is a component of WWS.</p>
<p>
[quote]
...in all honesty you shouldn't bank on getting into WWS. the selection process is non-sensical. it isn't merely based on grades or background. sometimes qualified people get rejected and unqualified people get in. and please don't list WWS as a major in your facebook profile. would you say you were a member of a bicker club before you got in?
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</p>
<p>But this is NOT a bicker club or a popularity contest. It's a college major and if you are truly interested in global affairs and public service, why should you have to sacrifice that. If you find the WWS program to be the best academic fit for you, why should you pretend you want to major in something else? I don't see any engineering students keeping quiet about their major because it's difficult or they might end up dropping out. Too many people seem to have this attitude of, "Don't get set your heart on Woody Woo because you may not make it." But that's how life is: you take a chance, you get through and you move on. How many of us went through the same thing applying to an ivy league school; applying to Princeton? We wouldn't have made it if every time someone said, "Princeton is a selective school, the admissions is a toss-up," we said, "You're right, I guess I'll just apply somewhere else." </p>
<p>There are some students who are truly interested in studying global affairs and they shouldn't be discouraged. I don't see anyone discouraging engineers or saying, "You probably won't make it. Don't go for it because of the prestige." It's too bad, because many WW prospectives (who have a <em>real</em> passion for public service) get turned off before they even apply. </p>
<p>It may be a selective major, but it has a 50% acceptance rate. That means for every two students, they're going to take one of you. A one in two chance doesn't sound that bad. It sure beats the 9% acceptance rate it took to get into Princeton. </p>
<p>The application says they're basically looking at your grades, your interest in public/international affairs and your background. What do they mean by "background", what "background" are they looking for? International background? Diverse background? Parents who worked in the foreign service?</p>
<p>nobody knows what WWS specifically looks for. they take a holistic approach to your application. a person with a C average will get in and a person with an A average won't, tough luck. there is no formula that will get you into WWS, just do what you are interested in and the admissions committee will decide if you are a match for the school. </p>
<p>as for indicating your interest in WWS...that is fine. if people ask you what you want to major in you can say WWS. if you put WWS on your application there is a chance your advisor will be from the WWS. but many upperclassmen take offense to freshmen putting Woodrow Wilson School as a major on facebook. and since you don't find out about WWS until april of your sophomore year, almost every student is also meeting the requirements to enter another department should they not be accepted into WWS. </p>
<p>in no way was my post intended to discourage people from applying to WWS, but rather to give people color on what the attitudes are on campus towards the major. </p>
<p>as for engineering, interestingly enough, about 50% of freshmen who start out as engineers do not graduate with a BSE.</p>
<p>Hehe, they knocked me off BSE already.</p>
<p>usually PHY103 does the job. for people that dont' like programming a D in COS126 will do it. MAT201 is a pain in the ass. and if you make it past the freshman year requirements CHE245, ORF309 or the sophomore year MAE courses will do it.</p>
<p>How did you get knocked off already Anonymous?</p>
<p>Or just not really caring enough about science to go through with the huge commitment.</p>
<p>
[quote]
almost every student is also meeting the requirements to enter another department should they not be accepted into WWS.
[/quote]
I was wondering about that, and I suppose it makes sense to fulfill prerequisites for another department even if you're applying to WW. For some programs, like politics, they only require you to have taken two departmental classes. The econ department, however, has significantly more prerequisites, and that's part of the problem with people's WWS applications: it looks like they've concentrated too much in a specific department (like econ) so their application is denied. How do you get around that and fulfill the requirements of another department without it looking like your interests are lopsided?</p>
<p>A question about the faculty: if a faculty member is listed as both an econ prof and WW prof, then which is their home department? A lot of professors are listed as "Public Affairs and Economics" - how does that work?</p>
<p>their home department is almost alway the non-WWS department. </p>
<p>as per your concern of looking too lopsided, sometimes that is good. WWS likes to see applications of people with very directed academic interests. they want you to have a clear plan of study for your time in the school and a clear research focus. if your plan of study is focussed on a public policy in the range of lets say economics, then they would look favorably upon a focussed study of economics. plus to enter the econ dept. you need to take 100,101, math, and stats. since a TON of freshman (and just about every WWS prospective) ends up taking the 100 level econs, math is not an ECON course and you need to take stats for WWS anyways it would not look as if you are concentrating too much in ECO. Or else every person getting the finance certificate would have been rejected from WWS. However, if you take 9 ECO courses your freshmen and sophomore years then your application might look one sided.</p>
<p>Right. Well thanks for explaining that. Does that mean the faculty gives less attention to Woodrow Wilson concentrators or do they have office hours and teaching times divided equally between the two departments?</p>
<p>Also:
Does "ECO 202: Statistics and Data Analysis for Economics" fulfill the QR requirement, the Econ prerequisite, the Woody Woo stats requirement AND the Psychology statistics prerequisite?</p>
<p>WWS has a very dedicated support and advising system for its undergraduates. there are professors dedicated to advising the WWS kids just like there are professors dedicated to advising in other departments. each department has an Undergraduate representative(s), who are the professors responsible for advising the undergraduates and signing the course cards.<br>
as for thesis advising, some WWS majors have a more difficult time finding thesis advisors because the WWS does not assign you an advisor like the other departments do. instead a WWS major has to ask a professor from one of the departments to be his/her advisor and it is up to the professor to decide if they want to advise you on your thesis. </p>
<p>as for office hours and teaching times, office hours are for anyone in the course regardless of department the student is in. almost every WWS course is taken by concentrators and non-concentrators and the professors devote equal time to just about every course. </p>
<p>and ECO202 fulfills the requirements you mentioned
ORF245 fulfills the requirements you mentioned and the engineering stats requirement. ECO202 is taken almost exclusively by sophomore econ majors and finance certificate people.</p>
<p>Thanks for elaborating on the WWS profs and the advising system. I hadn't realised that Woody Woo had a similar advising system to any other department, or that you had to find your own thesis supervisor. I wonder if that ends up being a problem for most WW students...</p>
<p>
[quote]
ECO202 is taken almost exclusively by sophomore econ majors and finance certificate people.
[/quote]
So ECO 202 is probably the best stats course for people interested in Woody Woo and/or Econ. Right?</p>
<p>You mentioned the Finance certificate - do many WWS concentrators also take the certificate in finance? I found the link to an article about the Robertson case (suing the WWS), but it says the family was suing the GRADUATE school because they(WWS - Graduate Program) were churning out too many investment bankers and not enough people working for the government. Does this same problem apply in the undergraduate program too, or is it of much greater concern in the graduate level than it is at the undergraduate level?</p>
<p>the robertsons are ****ed b/c WWS graduates (undergrad and grad school) are overwhelmingly not going into government service. this is primarily because the government does not have good pay. however, it is not the grad program at WWS that is churning out investment bankers. it is the undergraduate program, however it is not limited to WWS. every department at princeton churns out bankers (esp econ and orfe). the robertson's gripe is that instead of working for the govt WWS undergrads are doing what the rest of their undergraduate peers are doing and working for banks, consulting firms etc. also, another thing to keep in mind is that the WWS attracts a lot of people who are "banking" types. it is not that WWS makes you a better candidate to investment banks, but rather that the people who want to work at the banks are attracted to WWS (and ECO and ORFE). there are a lot of WWS people who do finance certificates. a ton of ECO majors and every orfe gets a Finance certificate. and there are tons of finance certificates from other majors as well [which is why this upcoming year there is a cap and admissions requirements for the finance certificate]. and there are also tons of WWS majors who hate math/finance and WWS stats is their hardest course in the department.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So ECO 202 is probably the best stats course for people interested in Woody Woo and/or Econ. Right?
[/quote]
ECO 202 is required for Econ major, so yes.</p>
<p>you can also take ORF245, so is ECO202 better than ORF245?</p>
<p>orf245 is harder...marginally. they are basically the same until the last week in which the topics you cover in eco202 are better for econometrics rather than orf245. but with orf245 you are competing on the curve with engineers...with eco202 you aren't</p>
<p>
[quote]
there are a lot of WWS people who do finance certificates....and there are also tons of WWS majors who hate math/finance and WWS stats is their hardest course in the department.
[/quote]
So if the WWS/Finance people usually end up on Wall Street doing I-banking, what happens to the other WWS majors - the ones who hate math and are not interested in finance. What jobs/work do they usually end up doing?</p>
<p>Maybe those ACTUALLY do international relations? Diplomacy?</p>
<p>Law school, graduate school, consulting, fortune 500 companies, work for non-profits etc. etc. </p>
<p>WWS is not just an international relations school but a public policy school. it has just as much focus on domestic policy as it does on international policy. the roberstons are upset b/c graduates are not working for the government. this does not mean that graduates aren't working for nonprofits or law firms or public policy related disciplines but they just aren't working for uncle sam.</p>
<p>Okay, so what are some specific examples because it still sounds vague to me. E.g:</p>
<p>Major at Princeton: Woody Woo with courses in Polulation/Environmental Studies
Employer: United Nations
Job: Urban development funding in South East Asian villages</p>
<p>Princeton degree: Woody Woo and Art certificate, then Law School
Employer: National Museum
Job: Policy-maker of international art trade laws</p>
<p>Are these good examples? What would be a possible career for this one:</p>
<p>Princeton degree: Woody Woo and East Asian Studies certificate
Employer: ?
Job: ?</p>