<p>It is not weird to me that the val did not get into Harvard and a lower ranked kid did. For one thing, top colleges turn away kids with perfect stats and so on. There could have been attractive qualities to the lower ranked kid than the one ranked number one and academically not a lot of difference between them. </p>
<p>I never said that someone who is truly a contender WILL get in to a specific school (surely not!!) but if they really fit the profile (and I don’t nearly mean stats-wise) of what an elite college is seeking, they likely will not be shut out if they have 10 or so schools, and where the list is balanced and not are super duper reachy odds, top ten ranked, etc. They can’t predict which schools will take them, but a super top candidate is going to get into some very strong colleges.</p>
<p>“^^ The kid I was talking about graduated from Berkeley Engineering! He is tall and handsome, I have no idea why those 12 bs/md schools did not take him. Another kid from our HS got into USC BS/MD this year is not outstanding, at around 8-10% ranking, I know him because his mom works with me in music boosters a lot. The Val of our school did not get into Harvard, but a lower ranking kid did, its wiered.”</p>
<p>Ummm…‘tall and handsome’? I don’t think any of the schools have a height and appearance requirement these days. </p>
<p>Val does not mean all that much. I can easily come up with reasons that a lower ranked kid would be a better candidate.</p>
<p>I think I hold the record for least number of colleges applied to combined by parents (who both went to 4 year colleges): 2</p>
<p>My dad only applied to the University of Minnesota and my mom only applied to the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire. Both of those are only rolling admissions. I’ll apply to around 8 if I don’t get into Northwestern ED.</p>
<p>ad hominem? repeated attempts at provoking?
No and No. All I wrote here are statements of facts as I see them. And unlike you, I will defend each and every one of my statements with evidence. And if I cannot, I will apologize to you right here for each and every of my erroneous statements.</p>
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<p>From the context of the question, was there much ambiguity about the meaning and intent of the question?
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<p>So let me repose the questions that you have refused to answer: (1) What is wrong with the data pool? (2) Is it alright for Ramaswami or anyone else who has read Espenshade’s studies to be comfortable with the data pool?</p>
<p>I know that you will come back with some non-response because you won’t be able to demonstrate any problem with the data pool but don’t have the courage and grace to admit it.</p>
<p>Im applying to 4, and I consider myself a highly-qualified student. I could get accepted elsewhere, or I could go to a state-school, get cheap undergrad, do well, and then get a grad degree from a really good university. Thats my plan.</p>
<p>As for the continued argument, lasting post after post, transcending page after page:
I realize this is not my argument. But this is a forum, a community discussion. As such, like it or not, anyone can cash it whenever they want. I will do so now.
I do not even know how this argument originated (didnt care enough to track it down) or what it is fully about. But I do know that it is silly and childish to be acting the way the involved members are. You are disagreeing, things have been said that were insulting and/or misconstrued. It is clear that this argument will not be settled here, bickering is only bound to take place. So will the involved members just please play nice, like mature adults, and move on? Just stop replying, both of you. It is going nowhere.
If it makes you feel better, all of you get on and individiually say “you won”. Everyone feels like they are a winner. Yeah, I realize thats childish. I feel its deserved. Just forget about the stupidity.</p>
<p>While I don’t think that fit is overrated, I think that a type of fit is overrated.</p>
<p>There are three types of fit
-social, whether you will have friends and feel comfortable
-academic, whether the classes will be what you want, in terms of both subject matter and rigor
-opportunity, whether the school will offer, now and in the future, the opportunities you want</p>
<p>People tend to focus exclusively on social fit, denigrating people who care about the last two. However, for some people academics and opportunities are simply more important. I’ve never remained at one school for more than two years, and every switch was because I wanted harder classes and a more well-regarded school. That’s what I care about. </p>
<p>Other people I know have stayed at mediocre schools because they like the people. That’s what they care about.</p>
<p>I just read this thread, not entirely but mostly and have to jump in.</p>
<p>I agree more than 90% of what ramaswani is saying, of course there are always exceptions or extreme cases which will disagree of what he said.</p>
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<li>I am a Asian too. From last two years, I already know some kids regret applying to a few schools only and end up not many choices from good academic ranking point of view and also from financial aid point of view. So, i agree to apply as many as possible if $ and effort is OK. Bottom line, how much $ and effort you already spent in your 13 years of education and I think you should put your best effort in your college application process.</li>
<li>I also agree in general “Fit is overrated”. Again, don’t preach me as I know some kids are more mature knowing what what they want. In general, most 18 years old kids I talk to are very immature. They can say which school they like most, but when i go deeper and find out how they arrive to the conclusion, you know that may not be the “fit” school for their next 4 years! US news ranking is much more trustworthy for those kids.</li>
<li>I truely agree the selectivity disadvantage for Asian kids, anywhere from 100 to 250 SAT points compared to other races. Many Asian kids I know have scores within the range or even on the top 75% range but still rejected or waitlisted. I actully used the 2010 addmission statistics which most schools just published. Again, don’t preach me on that I know enough about the “holistic” admission process. This is also a big reason why you should apply more schools as the admission is so unpredictable. BTW, I always laugh at the popular “Chance me” threads at CC when people say you are a match, etc. I know from my own experence that you can be a good match from statistics but still rejected or WL.</li>
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<p>My niece in Alabama was just accepted to the University of Alabama for next fall. It was the only school she applied to. It was the only school she wanted to go to. And that takes care of that. She’s happy. Her parents are thrilled. No angst. No finger pointing. No yelling. She’s looking forward to an enjoyable senior year.</p>
<p>That phenomenon is not limited to Asian applicants. They are not unique in that regard. However, as stated many times by Asians and others alike on CC, Asians tend to cluster their applications lopsidedly and very disproportionately at a very small number of schools. They are literally competing more against each other than anyone else. Some of that has to do, I suspect, with an almost blind reliance on US News rankings. </p>
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<p>Well, if you understand this, then it shouldn’t be surprising to you that many high scoring students get rejected or waitlisted. Whether some people like it or not, scores are not the sole determinant for admissions in the US… but hey, I don’t want to preach about it. </p>
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<p>This really depends on ones objectives, don’t you think? For many, going to college is a “life experience,” not just for the dogged, singular pursuit of prestige or academic notoriety.</p>
<p>Perhaps what is overrated is the belief that “fit” has an universal meaning. In essence, “fit” is an incredibly individual criterion. Accordingly, we should accept the fact that for some students, all of the first 15 to 20 schools would represent a good fit, even if it raises the eyebrows of most people who see glaring differences among those same 15-20 schools. </p>
<p>It also seems that people from different cultures might look at education through different lenses. While some might see spending four or more years in higher education as a combination of learning, maturing, but also one that includes having a reasonable good time and a reasonable level of comfort and happiness, others might see it as a merely preparing for the best future possible, even it it comes with sacrifices and an enormous amount of efforts. </p>
<p>Noboby has ever said that the process of acculturation was an easy one, let alone that it was necessary nor right.</p>
<p>Thank goodness my parents (who are asian) aren’t like some of you who feel that fit is overrated, and that rank matters for everything (4 vs 9, not gonna be a big difference)/</p>
<p>Again, I want to emphasize my opinions are just for general cases and NOT ABSOLUTE. I think some of you missed that part and please read my second paragraph.</p>
<p>For the score disadvantage, again I agree it could happen to any races because of the holistic approach. Actually I agreed somewhat “Asians tend to cluster their applications lopsidedly” to the higher ranking schools. I am just saying in general and you can read this article if you are interested.</p>
<p>Regarding for the “Fit” part, I also stated that in general and it could be wrong for some students especially the mature/independent ones. I say this from my experience talking to co-workers who recently graduated and regretted they picked college based on certain interests. That interest could be the greek life, my friend was also applying, closer to my house, this college just seem fit to me, cheaper, etc. I also talked to a few seniors (non-Asian) in past April and I had to wonder whether their decisions will not be regretted years later. Again, I admire seniors who pick a school with a lower ranking with a logical reason such as the school has a particular major or the overall school philosophy, etc. But most of them were not citing these kinds of reasons…</p>
<p>To be honest, if I were a HS senior, I would also like to pick a college purely based on what I like and not thinking about the future or the ranking, and also no parent involvement. As a parent now, I think it is my responsibility to help (but not force) the teenage student towards the best decision possible.</p>
<p>Sounds to me like you are assigning some of the random and non substantive reasons some kids pick a particular school to the notion of “fit.” Obviously, I can’t speak for others, but when I refer to “fit” I’m talking about a much more thoughtful analysis than some of the superficial reasons an uninformed student might give about choosing a school. An analysis by the way, that absolutely includes the quality and rigor of academic life. However, it also contemplates and weighs many other factors in addition, much of which has to do with the individual qualities of the student. I am looking for the place offering the most suitable environment relative their strengths, weaknesses, and needs as a total person, not just their intellect alone. </p>
<p>Under that definition, my guess is that the vast majority of students don’t properly pursue and evaluate fit when deciding on college. Thus, I would suggest there is very little one could understand about the value of “fit” if their knowledge of it is primarily derived from a random, anecdotal sampling of students and friends, who themselves, may not have actually embraced the process.</p>
<p>The selection process and approach to it is different with different kids. Some have no idea what they want and just want a “good school.” But there are kids who really compare and contrast schools and truly have some significant selection criteria. Some kids even know what they want at a young age and some don’t. I have a kid who has known what field she has wanted to go into since she was very young and it has never wavered and she applied to specialized college degree programs where you have to commit specifically to that program, not simply the college when applying. She went to college at age 16 in fact in her field of lifelong passion. She is out of school one year now (is 21) and from the day she graduated, she has been working in her field and supporting herself. I’m not saying every kid has to know so young. It is fine not to. But some do know and feel certain of their path.</p>