Worried: Asian Legacy

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

<p>I'm not looking for chances so much as tips. I know that my chances are impossible to predict and are mostly predicated on the intangibles of my application: essays, interview, random chance, etc. But it's the end of the year, and I've come to realize I really have to get everything together if I want a shot at Harvard - so I'd appreciate some help here.</p>

<p>I'm an Asian-American double legacy who's applying to Harvard next year. My parents have donated to the school annually for the past twenty years, and my dad went to law school there.</p>

<p>In terms of stats, I know I'm fairly competitive:
I'm first in my class, with a 34 ACT (35 Math, 35 English, 34 Reading, 33 Science, 9 essay), and I got a 2250 on my SAT (I had calculator problems, so my score was 800 CR, 760 W, 690 M).
I'll have taken 8 AP tests by the end of the year, with 5s on all of them, I think, except for Music Theory (4 with 5 nonaural subscore) and Spanish Lang (3/4). I took classes for all of them except for BC Calc, which I self-studied with the help of a teacher. I was going to self-study for AP Macro/Microeconomics this year, but my school couldn't find anywhere for me to take it.
In terms of subject tests, I have an 800 on Math II, 800 on Physics, 780 in Literature, and 730 in US History. I'm taking Spanish in June or October.</p>

<p>But my extracurriculars are pretty typical for an Asian-American: two fairly prestigious youth orchestras and concertmaster in one of them, string quartet, tennis (varsity alternate), captain of the chess club, founder of Science Olympiad at my school, programmer in robotics. I also go to a selective program on the weekend for science, and I received a 6 on AIME. These are what I'm legitimately interested in, though, or else I would have steered clear of these activities with the college process in mind.</p>

<p>I'm planning on applying for math, and right now I'm pretty accelerated in it: A+ in Calc III after self-studying Calc, A in Linear Algebra, attended a selective math summer program, and taking a 300-level course at a local college in number theory. Next year, I'll be taking complex analysis at the 400-level. I actually really really love math, and even though both of my parents are humanities-oriented, it's really my passion and probably going to be the main focus of my application. This summer, I'm doing a research project with a professor to submit to Siemens.</p>

<p>So here are my questions:
1) If I get a 3 in Spanish and end up not receiving National AP Scholar, how much will that hurt me in the long run?
2) Will it hurt me that I couldn't take the Micro/Macro tests? It's really bothering me, since I paid a lot of money for online courses in them.
3) What should I do about standardized testing? More specifically:
a. Should I retake the SAT/ACT? I know my scores are okay, but would it help me stand out if I retook one of them and gunned for a perfect score - and would there be some sort of chance of receiving Presidential Scholar? Also, if I don't retake them, should I just send my ACT and bury my SAT?
b. This June, should I take the SAT, or should I take Spanish and US History?
4) Should I take Spanish Lit next year, or focus on my own independent math studies instead?
5) Compared to the harm done by being Asian, how much will legacy help? I know that my activities make being Asian a lot worse because it puts me right in the pigeonhole, but I've also heard rationalizations, one from my dad being: "Since legacy preference is often accused of being a form of white privilege, being an Asian legacy is better than being a white legacy."
6) What should my priorities right now be, in terms of the college draft? I don't want to be overwhelmed, especially knowing how much I have on my hands right now, and I want it to be clear on my application that I have vision.
7) Any other tips?</p>

2

<ol>
<li>Probably not a lot. National AP Scholar is so common it’s devoid of meaning and not at all prestigious.</li>
<li>It shouldn’t. Just write a note explaining the situation in the “Additional Info” sectionof the common app or something; they won’t punish you for lacking rescources</li>
<li>a. No, I think you’ve gotten to the point where they won’t hurt you, and to get them even higher wouldn’t be worth the time you could have spent programming/studying/daydreaming. I don’t see why you would want to bury your SAT, looks pretty good to me.
b. So take Spanish and History
c. Do what you want; only take spanish lit if you like it and would sacrifice a math course for it</li>
<li>First of all, being Asian doesn’t do any harm; it just doesn’t do any good. And legacy should help if they’re active; you get a special selection process and whatnot.</li>
<li>Priorities? Not sure, seems like working really hard on your research and programming would be good, and maybe starting some essays/college selection over the summer.</li>
</ol>

<p>Remember that I am just a random uninformed high school student and you should take this with a grain of salt! But I’ve found it’s reassuring to be told by other people what you probably already know :)</p>

3

<p>@‌lanflan For #3, the reason why I’d want to bury my SAT is the Math section, which is atrocious for someone who wants to go right into Math-55. </p>

<p>But this was reassuring, thank you!</p>

<p>Does anyone else want to provide some perspective? I’m not seeking just reassurance but also criticism or stuff I can change.</p>

4

<p>As a class of 2018 applicant, in retrospect, honestly I would tell you to stop stressing out so much. I know I stressed out during this time last year, but it did me pretty much no good. I had the same ACT score as you did, and similar (actually worse) scores compared to you in other things. I got rejected to Harvard, but got in Yale and Stanford. As cliche as this sounds, just be yourself in your application, and give it your best shot. Whatever the result is, you know that you have given your best shot. Rest assured that you will end up at a place where you’d fit better in anyways, and be happy.</p>

<p>Sincerely,</p>

<p>A happy member of Duke Class of 2018 ;)</p>

5

<p>I would retake the SAT ONLY because you said you had calculator problems. You want to show what you can actually do. This is coming from someone who took it only once, though, and I’m the first to say you don’t want to nitpick with your test scores. Your stats are really good, better than mine. My piece of advice is I think you should write your essay on something other than your ECs and make it really personable, because you’re right they don’t show focus/passion/your human side. That’s not a problem though, just show it elsewhere. You seem very realistic and grounded and that should help you. Instead of worrying about how you can stand out from other Asian applicants, think about what makes you an individual and write about it. And I agree with the above, don’t stress about it it isn’t worth your sanity (neither is Math 55).</p>

6

<p>I agree completely with what @lanflan‌ said. And doing those ECs, even if you are asian, shouldn’t matter if they are truly what you are passionate about. If the admission council can’t see past stereotypes, that is their problem, but those are some pretty impressive acomplishments for any applicant.</p>

<p>P.S. My cousin just graduated from the big H last month, and her advice was “do what you’re passionate about and don’t look back. do things for you, not for the purpose of admissions. you’ll be much happier that way, and then whatever happens, you will know your time is well spent.” So yes, even if you are asian, if you are passionate about those things, just do it, stop stressing, and don’t look back.</p>

7

<p>I’d retake the SAT cuz a 6 on AIME will guarantee you a 800 on math if you are careful enough. You are strong in both your tests and your ECs. Be confident of yourself!</p>

8

<p>Thank you all for your advice! </p>

<p>I did retake the SAT and received a 2270… I pretty much flipped my score: 800 M, 750 W, 720 CR. So my superscore is a 2360, which I’m pretty happy with. Some of my friends have told me that Harvard looks for “perfect students,” though, so apparently even though they superscore, they still take into account that my single highest sitting was a 2270. To what extent is this true?</p>

<p>Also do you agree with @brm114341 about my college essay: should I make it personable and completely unrelated to extracurriculars? </p>

9

<p>@Mathemusician112‌ , you may want to edit your post and remove your idea for your essay.</p>

10

<p>@busyperson‌ Oops, thank you.</p>

11

<p>Harvard is clear that they superscore the SAT. I’d take them at their word. Lots of folks who get into Harvard aren’t “perfect” students, at least as measured by test scores and grades.</p>

12

<p>

While that’s true, this recent survey of Harvard freshman indicates that fifty-four percent of students reported they had a perfect 4.0 in high school, regardless of test scores. I like the scattergram because it cross references GPA and test scores – so you can see it very clearly. So, Harvard does seem to like those perfect kids: <a href=“The Harvard Crimson | Class of 2017”>http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>@Mathemusician112: I would cast a wide net. FWIW: Two of my son’s best friends at Yale (a white girl and an asian boy) are Harvard legacies and they are having a great experience at a peer school.</p>

13

<p>As the old saw goes, correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation.</p>

<p>“So, Harvard does seem to like those perfect kids”</p>

<p>Or perhaps, Harvard likes some other quality in these students that often also correlates with perfect GPAs. I could think of one or two off the bat.</p>

14

<p>@gibby I do intent to cast a wide net! Yale is still one of my top choices, but since I want to study math, I’m not as interested in it as, say, Caltech. I would definitely be ecstatic to attend Yale, though! </p>

<p>@notjoe That would make sense! Could you explain what those qualities are?</p>

15

<p>@Mathemusician112‌,</p>

<p>I’d only be speculating. But here’s a guess: Harvard takes a disproportionate number of students from academically-elite high schools. In fact, some of these schools send so many kids to top tier colleges and universities, that folks call them “Ivy feeders.” These high schools are often highly academically-selective, taking only the very top slice of students.</p>

<p>The culture of these schools, “Ivy feeders,” and those that wannabe Ivy feeders, differs in some important ways from the culture of most other high schools. Parents often send their children to these top, academically-elite high schools, with the specific intention of aiming for the most selective colleges and universities. In overly-simplistic terms, parents are paying for the best chances for their children to get into the most selective schools. Parents bothering to send their kids to these schools often have a pretty good idea of what’s what; they know that Harvard takes lots of 4.0 kids, and thus, the desire of the paying customer - the parent - will express itself as a bias in the organizational culture toward higher grading, especially for those students who clearly have the best shots at the best schools.</p>

<p>Conversely, there are schools like the private Catholic high school to which I sent both my sons. It’s famous for its sports programs, but still has solid academics. Everyone who graduates goes off to college. It’s a college prep school; if you’re not aiming for college, you shouldn’t attend. But it’s not an academically-elite school. Out of graduating classes of 190 - 210, in a given year, maybe a few students will go to one of the ivies, and a few more kids to other top 25 schools. Most kids wind up at one of the state’s public colleges and universities.</p>

<p>This is not an “Ivy feeder” school, or anything close to it, That’s not the culture, that’s not the attitude. Freshmen don’t enter with Ivy dreams. Parents don’t send their kids here with the mission of getting HYP acceptances after four years. This year, two students applied to Harvard, and one was accepted. Two others were accepted at other Ivies. Typical year.</p>

<p>The culture and attitudes differ considerably between my sons’ sort of high school and that of Ivy feeder schools (and those that wannabe Ivy feeder schools). There is a more relaxed attitude toward grades. Grades of A are great. A-s are great. Bs are usually thought to be pretty good. A few Bs (or even a couple of Cs) are not going to keep you out of State U.</p>

<p>My older son was valedictorian his year. But no teacher hesitated to give him a grade lower than an A, and he did not finish with a 4.0. Most years at my sons’ high school, no one finishes with a 4.0. It’s just not considered a very important achievement. In fact, at my sons’ high school, although high academic achievement is encouraged, “going for the grade” is not.</p>

<p>It’s a different culture at the more elite schools, and it is a culture that, in my guess, creates more pressure to achieve GPAs of 4.0, and thus, may produce overall higher GPAs, including more 4.0s.</p>

<p>So more kids go to Ivies from the more academically-elite high schools, where the pressure concerning grades is more conscious, stronger, and oriented toward the highest end of the grading scale, especially for those students who are clearly at the top of their classes, intellectually, already.</p>

16

<p>@notjoe I am aware of these “Ivy Feeders,” but I think Harvard’s preference for them has declined over time. My dad went to one of these high schools and said that 30+ out of around 250 kids went to Harvard back in his day, and the number has declined to maybe 10-20. </p>

<p>So you think that Ivies are looking for students who are already used to the same academic pressure they’ll experience in college?</p>

17

<p>@mathemusician112,</p>

<p>Although the role of the feeders has declined over the past decades, nonetheless, these schools still provide an outsized percentage of students to Harvard and other Ivies. If they didn’t, parents wouldn’t be lining up to spend many tens of thousands of dollars per year to send their children to them.</p>

<p>I’m not suggesting that the “Ivies are looking for students who are already used to the same academic pressure they’ll experience in college.” I’m just pointing out that these schools traditionally provide a large percentage of students to the Ivies, and then that these schools also have a culture that differs from other high schools, where there is greater pressure to achieve perfect or near-perfect GPAs. That’s a correlation. No causality is implied.</p>

<p>Frankly, the pressure isn’t only (or even, possibly, mostly) exerted on the students. The pressure is felt profoundly by faculty in many (most?) of these institutions. There is a lot of pressure on faculty in some (or many or most) of these schools to give As, especially to those students who have already been identified in one way or other as especially promising.</p>

<p>Why do Ivies take relatively higher proportions of kids from these schools? </p>

<p>There is a reason why these schools graduate 97% or more of their matriculating freshmen: risk management. There’s just a lot less risk admitting the 10th or 20th ranked student from one of the very best elite high schools than to admit the valedictorian of some public school out in the middle of Oklahoma that’s never in its history sent anyone to a top tier university. </p>

18

<p>I think the success of your application will hinge on your ability to convey your genuine enthusiasm for your hobbies in your essays. You seem like a pretty chilled out/self-aware person, which would definitely set you apart from other applicants with your scores and ECs if you let your personality shine through in your application.</p>

<p>So, try to show the adcom that your application is exactly who you are–yet that there is more to you than what’s in your application. I’m not talking just about your essays, but also about the way you discuss your ECs and explain your circumstances elsewhere on the application, as well as about your recommendations. Just hope it all makes sense together and paints you as a pleasant and genuine person.</p>

<p>You definitely have the numbers.</p>