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<p>Or whose parents are unable or unwilling to support the new graduate during a period of unemployment or very low paying jobs.</p>
<p>What I feel is that whenever some objective data is posted here, people try to say that this is not credible because of their personal experiences. These attempts to discredit statistics from large samples by posting one or two personal stories is more detrimental than helpful to college students.
I agree with ucbalumnus that it is okay that people make their own major choices and be happy with them, provided the decisisons are well informed.
Another argument here is that some people or members of their families feel âattackedâ because of arguments that are posted here. The point is not to attack anyone. The point is to make it very clear to readers that choice of majors do have significant implications on earning potential. If one thinks that his/her choice of major was great and led to a successful career, this is wonderful. No issues here. Just donât try to make it seem that, in general, all majores can lead to equivalent career oportunities in terms of employability and earning potential.</p>
<p>@Inpersonal: The facts speak for themselves and several have posted hard data to support what graduates actually earn in general, so IÂm not sure why there are any further posts discussing what is mundane fact. But what do those facts have to do with education? To hear @Davinitall tell it, attending college has been reduced to a means to a paycheck or an expensive party.</p>
<p>@Consolation: Our stories are frighteningly similar, but I wonât post details so as not to offend or bore anyone with my irrelevant anecdotes.</p>
<p>I will continue to tell my kiddo to just be a sponge â soak up all the knowledge he can for its own sake, try as many new things as he can, engage in delightful conversations, poke curiously into dusty corners, read his lessons under trees, find the thing that makes his heart burst; everything else (money included) will take care of itself. Someday, he will walk across a platform to receive a diploma that I hope will come to signify for him that magical time in his life spent NOT worrying about money and career. Heâll have a lifetime left to address those issues.</p>
<p>Everyone else can use this list and its supporting data to make sure their kids understand how to trade their diplomas for dollars.</p>
<p>^ sure everyone else will do thatâŠjeez, defensive much?</p>
<p>good. I am tired of seeing these kids having so much fun in college, good they dont get paid. I took a few classes from some of these departments and wow⊠what jokesâŠ
As an engineer I was able to write better papers than so many of these so called English majors, in these classes. What are these kids learning, and why can an engineer go in and outperform them with literally no effort in their own fieldâŠ</p>
<p>hylyfe, I was able to outperform plenty of quant types in assembler classes. So? They WANTED to be programmers. I didnât.</p>
<p>Entry-level classes in English tend to be designed to encourage people to pursue the subject, not weed them out. That is not the same thing as being able to truly excel. Iâm quite sure that you wouldnât have been able to outperform me, or any of the other talented students at my school. The MIT students who signed up for our classes dropped out in droves after they got their first C. And it is likely that they were a hell of a lot smarter than you are.</p>
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<p>I, and many other kids, was able to support myself without parental handouts with those âvery low-paying jobsââyes, including a stint in retail, oh the horror!!âafter college and before grad school, and after grad school and before having an actual career. Thatâs what kids do. They share apartments, get whatever work they can, and so on. Yes, at one point I lived at home for a few months while working and building up some $$ before getting an apt with a friend. But my parents were not giving me money. But oh, of course, this is merely anecdotal and doesnât count. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>âBut oh, of course, this is merely anecdotal and doesnât count.â
Of curse this counts more than the statistics released by universities and by the government. What was I thinking? </p>
<p>Next time I need some information about U.S. demographics I will not check for Census information. Instead, I will contact a CC poster and see what is his/her personal situation so I can infer that to the entire U.S. population. Why rely on statistics and large samples if one data point is more representative?</p>
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Good grief.</p>
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<p>Maybe they earned those Cs with sentences like this.</p>
<p>bovertine, you make a good point. I think weâre seeing the prose equivalent to pancaked parking garages and collapsed bridges. </p>
<p>Anybody can build a building just like anybody can publish a novel. Question is, will it stand the test of time.</p>
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Thanks. I hope my comment stands the test of time. :)</p>
<p>Actually I was just joking around. This is an internet message board after all. </p>
<p>And truthfully, I donât think I can build a building or publish a novel. At least I never have.</p>
<p>hylife, your assertion is frightening on so many levels. Have you any grasp of proper syntax or grammar?</p>
<p>Note that the experiences of current parents at college graduation a few decades ago may be different from now, with respect to job prospects, variation in pay level for graduates of different majors, and amount of student loan debt carried. The much higher cost of attending college now may be increasing pressure to consider job prospects more when selecting a college and major.</p>
<p>Some pay levels for 1983 graduates: <a href=âhttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1267923-average-monthly-salary-graduates-1983-a.html[/url]â>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1267923-average-monthly-salary-graduates-1983-a.html</a></p>
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<p>Children from families that have deep pockets and personal connections for landing jobs have always had the luxury of studying anything they wanted. Children of immigrants have long been persuaded (or forced) to âlearn something practical.â There were a few decades where anyone with a college degree was in demand, so students from typical middle-class homes could pursue their interests and still land a job afterward. </p>
<p>Now a large chuck of the youth population has a college degree, while jobs are scarce and HR departments are lazy, predefining rigid requirements just to be granted an interview. At the same, college costs have skyrocketed and itâs never been easier or cheaper to learn interesting subjects on oneâs own. Is it any surprise that collecting appropriate credentials for employment has replaced learning for its own sake?</p>
<p>^^^Great post. We canât really afford to pretend anymore that the college experience isnât changing. The book The New College Reality by Bonnie Snyder addresses many of the problems and how to minimize them for todayâs student. Also, I am not one for statistics but many CC posters should goggle âavailability heuristicâ. It is a reasoning error where just because you can think of an example you believe it to be true. Too many CC arguments are based on this error.</p>
<p>My D just got turned down for an âentry levelâ position as an HR assistant. No degree required, but she was told ânot enough experience in personellâ, I think referring to some software that tracks applications and payroll. She has not done that, but she has had months to a year of internships with clerical and journalism work. She also has two âcertifcatesâ in related areas, and a degree from a CC top school. And fortunately, very small loans ( the fortunate child of immigrants* who did something practical, so we have deep pockets). She had to submit a typing test. 40 wpm was required and she scored 70. </p>
<p>She keeps asking why she went to college, when she could have had 4 years of experience, and I keep telling her what folks told me when I expressed concerns about her major (English), here on CC three years ago. </p>
<p>I absolutely agree being able to think broadly and sell yourself could possibly make all the difference, at least where there is work.</p>
<p>*props to my dad who was not an immigrant, but essentially a sharecropper.</p>
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<p>I will pick sociology. This way I wonÂt have to break a sweat.:D</p>
<p>In all seriousness, the major that folks on cc are âpickingâ on is business above all. I am somewhat puzzled, but not offended by it. Here in Canada, and in the schools I know, admission into business programs are more competitive than arts and science. In some, such as York and the Schulich School of Business, the difference in quality of students is huge.</p>
<p>These students here in Ontario must present, two senior maths (including calculus) and one English in the six or more subjects for consideration. The more competitive program even ask for high level EC involvements from the applicants, something that rarely ever happens for applicants to arts and science. According to CLA, it is also one of the programs where students show the greatest academic Âgrowth after 4 years.</p>
<p>What not to like?</p>
<p>Shrinkrapâjust because she has a degree doesnât mean she is qualified to do that job, in fact, her issue is she is overqualified. In a position like that, it is mostly data entry and kind of mind numbing work. They see an applicant with a degree from a âtopâ school and wonder why she is applying to that job, knowing that as soon as something else comes along she will be gone. Now, if she had a degree in HR, it would make sense to apply for that job, but not so much a degree in English. It doesnât mean that her English degree is bad, just just applied to the wrong job. How about applying to jobs at publishing companies or other industries that use her skills?</p>
<p>A helpful website from the Bureau of Labor Statistics aimed at youth about careers (whatâs entailed, salary, degree needed for entry level, and 2010-2020 job growth):</p>
<p>[BLS</a> Career Information Home Page](<a href=âhttp://www.bls.gov/k12/index.htm]BLSâ>http://www.bls.gov/k12/index.htm)</p>
<p>Itâs not comprehensive but would be a good place for parents and students to start exploring careers & prospective majors (the main [U.S</a>. Bureau of Labor Statistics](<a href=âhttp://www.BLS.gov%5DU.Sâ>http://www.BLS.gov) site is comprehensive).</p>
<p>Poking around it seems the largest growth is predicted for health care providers & construction planning/tradesmen.</p>
<p>For writers & editors there is some growthâŠnot high (but some other careers have predicted declines). And the average salaries for writers are good (~50,000-$60,000).</p>
<p>As students think about majors, there is no harm is seeking information from many sources while in high school and the 1st year of college (actively look at the stats, talk to parents, teachers & guidance folk, have informational interviews with professionals in their communities, and have experiences in prospective fields (via jobs, internships, volunteering, summer programs, taking a college or vocational class). </p>
<p>I agree with others that the cost of college and a tough job market for grads has changed the purpose of college for many middle class families.</p>
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<p>My comment was in direct response to an assertion that anyone who majors in something that does not result in a high starting salary is going to be supported by their parents. </p>
<p>Iâd like you to show me the Census Bureau stats that support that assertion. The fact is that they do not exist. </p>
<p>I am simply saying that kids can, and always have, managed to support themselves with the kind of low-paying jobs that they can get straight out of college.</p>
<p>You argument seems to be that âstatisticsâ prove every random negative assertion about humanities majors, even when those statistics donât even exist.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap, your D is falling into the over-qualified/not enough experience trap that many people do when they are starting out. It is a tough place to be. Eventually she will gain some momentum. In the meantime, she might want to think about what kind of job she really wants. Does she want to make HR her career? Or is she applying just because those jobs seem within her reach?</p>
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<p>It does not mean that they will, but the higher risk of such happening means that students from poor families are more likely to strongly consider the pre-professional aspects of choice of major.</p>