<p>"basically my point is, do you have to study liberal arts in depth for four years and spend $160,000 in order to "live an aware life as a person in the modern world?" Or does your high school education set you up to learn such things on your own if you choose to do so?"</p>
<p>no, its a waste of money and time but unfortunately most jobs require a college degree.</p>
<p>Asian Studies
Ethnic Studies
Whatever race studies</p>
<p>For all the things you read, all the things you write, you always end up with one of the following conclusions:
"Omfg, I am experiencing a cultural shock."
"Oh ****! Discriminations!"
"Um, I and my dad has this generation gap. I'm going to go psycho."</p>
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Ahem I'm a history major and I'll tell you that it's how you make the most of your major to keep it from being "useless." My school's History department really train their students to think, read, and write critically that they get jobs all over the place. Employers really value history majors because we've done some research with all kinds of sources and know how to figure out such problems. Good history students are also capable of handling HUGE projects independently unlike engineering which I believe/heard that it's mostly teamwork.</p>
<p>English is also wonderful- you're hired for your writing skills! As for literature, you can't go wrong with classic Brit lit like Shakespeare and Jane Austen (though I really detest her writing) because they're referenced in popular culture all over the place in English-speaking countries so it's a great thing to have that knowledge to impress your non-English major friends to know where that commerical line came from.</p>
<p>There are some useless majors IMHO in the fine arts but sometimes it's what students enjoy and their parents might just want them to go to college regardless of major. It's the degree that counts.
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<p>lol you've heard them wrong.
anyway, i think history, anything-studies and most liberal art majors are pretty useless.</p>
<p>bio and chem. any of the hard sciences</p>
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If you don't understand history, you don't understand the world. Simple enough.
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That's your own choice. If you choose to be ignorant, that's perfectly fine
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<p>Fantastic517, thats absurd. So going by that logic, if you don't understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand the world. Then you are ignorant right? Hey, I don't know quantum mechanics, heck, I don't even know anything about the second king of European mideval history. Theres a lot of things that I don't know. Does that mean I'm ignorant?</p>
<p>Bio and Chem? Are you kidding? Those are extremely important subjects</p>
<p>yea i'd like to see an argument made for math, bio, and chem being the worst majors. the only reason i can see someone saying those majors is because they hate those subjects or because they simply don't know any better.</p>
<p>Here's an argument against math :)</p>
<p>(Pure) math is technically not a natural science but a structural science, similar to logic and linguistics. It is not concerned with how the world works but it just makes a few assumptions (e.g. a certain set of logic and some axioms like 'there are infinitely many distinct lines parallel to a given line passing through a given point' for hyperbolic geometry) and studies the structure that is implied by those assumption - whether they make sense or not. And some esoteric mathematicians substitute the standard binary second-order logic (what all of us here would consider correct) with some other logical system, so whatever the outcome is, it does not have any relevance for us (unless you assume that the logic that is used throughout all other academic disciplines is wrong). Thus, math is a nice mind game but a pretty useless subject.</p>
<p>Convincing? Btw, this comes from a math major.</p>
<p>nope. that argument doesn't do much because it doesn't change the fact that everything basically involves money. adding/subtracting/dividing/multplying/taxes/etc are all things that come from math. and it works to for other things like measuring speed. measuring weight. counting. basic math is essential. a person that doesn't know basic math will most likely find themselves in the street unless they are being maintained by someone else (whom most likely understand basic math).</p>
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Convincing?
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<p>Nope! Axioms are picked in such a way that the resulting system is consistent, so it's not possible for it to "not make sense." Mathematical structures always make sense. In any case the results that come from the basic assumptions and axioms that underlie modern fields of mathematics are often extremely strong and very relevant to the rest of the world, though not often at the time. Complex numbers, for example, seem like a 'useless' construct, but they are crucial for say, AC analysis in electrical engineering and physics. There's a ton of situations like this. The theory of codes depends on abstract algebra. Key theorems from number theory form the basis for cryptographs that keep our information secure. And these are all pure fields. If we consider applied mathematics, or in between areas like differential equations, we can get a lot more.</p>
<p>Even if math was not directly applicable to the world, it wouldn't matter. Getting an undergrad degree in math would be very useful, since math teaches you how to think, how to make logical arguments, how to show something is true without doubt, and so on. These are very useful traits.</p>
<p>This is coming from an EE major who occasionally thinks about having done math instead.</p>
<p>Come on guys, why are you giving me such a hard time? I was just trying to play devil's advocate...</p>
<p>BP, you may be right about basic math but we are talking about college majors!</p>
<p>tetrahedr0n, of course the axioms are consistent but the resulting system may or may not be 'realistic' (for the lack of a better word). It is pretty well known that algebra (standard algebra) and analysis have applications. But what about e.g. higher order (>4) topology? Or math based on non-standard logic? (Sorry, I don't have a concrete example for the latter.)</p>
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Getting an undergrad degree in math would be very useful, since math teaches you... how to show something is true without doubt
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<p>Nope! Math only teaches you how to make valid arguments but an argument also has to be sound for its conclusion to be true (i.e. its premises must be true - that is something that math is usually not concerned with; that's why there are axioms).</p>
<p>Of course math teaches you a lot of skills, but so do all other subjects. In that line of argument all subjects would be useful, but we are trying to decide which ones are more useful than others.</p>
<p>"nope. that argument doesn't do much because it doesn't change the fact that everything basically involves money. adding/subtracting/dividing/multplying/taxes/etc are all things that come from math. and it works to for other things like measuring speed. measuring weight. counting. basic math is essential. a person that doesn't know basic math will most likely find themselves in the street unless they are being maintained by someone else (whom most likely understand basic math)."</p>
<p>but you don't need to major in math just to understand basic math. you can learn basic math in high school. you guys seem a little confused here. when we say worst majors, we're not criticizing the subject itself. I'm just saying it's not a very good idea to major and try to specialize in it. why did i say chem and bio? it's because all these kids go to college thinking they're going to major in bio or chem and become a doctor or something. i'm not criticizing the subjects themselves. i do think they're important and can be interesting, but unless you're really good and have the strong desire, interests, motivation and background to make it and advance beyond an undergrad from the hard sciences, having only an undergrad degree in the hard sciences itself is stressful, can burn you out, hurt your gpa, and not even help you find a good job. if you get lucky, you'll be a researcher. i know someone who will immediately talk you out of majoring in the hard sciences if you are thinking so. and this guy double majored in biochem and physics. </p>
<p>"Even if math was not directly applicable to the world, it wouldn't matter. Getting an undergrad degree in math would be very useful, since math teaches you how to think, how to make logical arguments, how to show something is true without doubt, and so on. These are very useful traits."</p>
<p>and how you just described math doesn't sound very different from philosophy, or even other liberal arts.</p>
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But what about e.g. higher order (>4) topology?
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<p>That's useful for modern physics, quantum mechanics, and so on. Actually a lot of topology and advanced algebra are useful in this area. The physics and the math sort of blend at some point.</p>
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Or math based on non-standard logic?
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<p>You got me. I don't really know much about non-standard logic, but I always thought that it was sort of a cold field, as in not a very prominent area of research. You're probably right about this one, but I still think thinking about non-standard logic could be useful. At least you can say you're really thinking outside the box?</p>
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. its premises must be true - that is something that math is usually not concerned with; that's why there are axioms).
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<p>True. But math is concerned with reducing statements to their logical foundations, as in the premises. </p>
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hard sciences itself is stressful, can burn you out, hurt your gpa, and not even help you find a good job.
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<p>I think something like medical school or more practical undergrad majors like engineering are more stressful, and hurt your gpa more. At least that's my view. All math majors I know at my school have good grades and aren't really stressed by their classes, which they really enjoy. And people who complete math majors go into a large variety of fields afterwards.</p>
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and how you just described math doesn't sound very different from philosophy, or even other liberal arts.
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<p>I agree, but I find fields like philosophy useful and important as well.</p>
<p>wow, this thread is intense. </p>
<p>Bottom line, I think? Every major is useful in some sense. Maybe you can't get a high paying job with something like Asian Studies straight out of undergrad, but maybe that was your passion and you had a great time getting it. Getting any undergrad degree shows potential employers that you are able to commit to and finish a course of study, and often times, thats enough for your first job. </p>
<p>We tend to look at majors like Bio, Chem, Math as much more "useful" but lets not underestimate the value of entertainment in this country. If we didn't have film majors where would the film industry be? If we didn't have history majors where would I get all my awesome WWII books? </p>
<p>A biologist might go into research and make progress in the search for a cancer cure, but I think it is ALMOST equally important that there be people who go into Kinesiology and make a difference in individual's lives through physical therapy or being a coach, etc. There are lots of different "niches" in society and they all need to be filled.</p>
<p>biology and chemistry...</p>
<p>there's simply no job available for them.</p>
<p>I just want to add that film studies and film production are two completely different majors. My college has a film studies major with courses like "Gender and Sexuality in American Cinema of the 1960s", "History of Narrative Cinema 1945-present", "Cult Genres: Camp Kitsch and Trash Cinema" and "Masterpieces of Russian Cinema". I would not be surprised if a film studies major would spend a lot of her time watching movies. Film production is very useful. Film studies? I'm not so sure about that one...</p>
<p>I agree with whoever says every major is useful in some way. You're all learning something and gaining new knowledge and skills. Those things will help you in whichever path you will take. For example, history will improve your analytical and writing abilities as well your reasoning and interpretation skills. They will also challenge your way of thinking and perception and force you to think outside the box when identifying or solving problems, analyzing patterns and ideas, forming models, and connecting the abstract and hard facts to reality and current problems. Knowing how to do these things is valuable in most occupations. And it's good to have a good deal of knowledge about a certain subject if you're going to get into it later in the future.</p>
<p>Recreation park and Tourism sciences.</p>
<p>The worst major is the one you're not willing to passionately pursue...</p>