Worst Statistics To Be Accepted

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
81

<p>
[quote]
That said, I think Newjack makes too many compromises - there is nothing inherently limiting about racial perception, it is just another of many factors beyond the applicant's control that can hurt their application indirectly. Racism can be overcome, and for many students this is easier than other factors would be to rise above (e.g. a facial disfigurement). I think, rather than eliminating AA, we should expand it to account for more factors than race. We might be a long way off palm sweat, but colleges should at least treat family income the exact same way they do race. They have the data.

[/quote]

the way the system works already takes the "facial disfigurement" case into consideration. if a kid with said disability wanted colleges to know this about him or her when making their decision, he or she can write an essay talking about what affect the disability had on his or her life. (hence, the open ended essay prompts.) it doesn't really make sense or is practical to call for a Affirmative Action equivalent to handle the "facial disfigurement" cases, since these are not common occurences.</p>

<p>also, schools have access to the applicant's zip code, school profile, whether or not the applicant worked during the school year, etc. these are all things that allow colleges to get an idea of the applicant's financial background. also, though people don't realize it, a socioeconomic AA policy that allowed colleges to consider an applicant's family's income would be much more controversial than the current form of AA.</p>

<p>lastly, the reason why AA exists now is because it would be illegal for colleges to consider race and gender. the reason why no AA equivalent needs to be created to handle the "facial disfigurement cases" is because it's not illegal to consider these sorts of things.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Newjack needs to stop using ad-hominem attacks

[/quote]

i'm not sure if i really used any...</p>

82

<p>Hi all. I'm not going to add to this debate, I just thought I'd share my thoughts on race (this may have been shared already).</p>

<p>In most cases, race becomes more than skin color. I think that is what AA is looking for. I mean, there are the outliers who have skin colors of a particular race, but customs of another.... but it many cases, skin color brings a long a sense of tradition and customs from that particular race. I'm sure you all know this, but after skimming some of the post, I just want to remind certain people about this because it is not all about skin color. It's about traditions, which add diversity to campuses.</p>

83

<p>I agree with the notion that true diversity will naturally come to a college if decisions are made based on factors not including race. At the same time, if a really prestigious school didn't include race as a factor, then it would likely be primarily caucasian and asian, intimidating minorities from applying and true talent and potential would be compromised due to not applying. So having a great school with a fairly significant minority population gives the signal that everyone has a chance, although I realize a side effect of this system is that qualified caucasians' spaces become more limited. But it is now a fact of life and non-minorities and minorities have to accept the different types of unfairness for and against their backgrounds. But in the end, all the unfairness in one respect is USUALLY made up for in another respect, for everyone.</p>

84

<p>
[quote]
I agree with the notion that true diversity will naturally come to a college if decisions are made based on factors not including race.

[/quote]

this is a non-issue that has been brought up throughout the thread. colleges look for all types of diversity when sorting through the applications. i mean if you think about it, it's in the school's interest to do this, since they want to be considered a school that offers lots of diverse clubs and activities. well in order to make offering these things worthwhile, there comes a point in time when the school needs students to participate in these activities-after all, it would be pretty stupid of the school to offer a bunch of clubs and activities and have nobody do them. thus, the student body that they admit must be as diverse as all of the clubs and activities that the school offers.</p>

85

<p>


</p>

<p>Asians ARE a minority in this country --- they are a substantial percentage of the population that lives here, though not nearly as large as African Americans and Hispanics, which probably makes them even more of a minority. However, for reasons that have their roots in racism, they lack the political clout of the THE minorities we are implicitly discussing here --- African Americans and Hispanics. The irony of it all is that Hispanics are not even a race, but a child of the political process (I mean no disrespect to anyone Hispanic, I just don't know of a better word to describe what I mean).</p>

<p>As d_rolla08 stated, race is much more than skin color: "In many cases, skin color brings a long a sense of tradition and customs from that particular race". "Asians" happen to bring a tradition of great respect for learning and education, regardless of socio-economic status. Therefore, despite clearly being a minority in the socio-economic sense of the word, the are not under-represented in higher education by virtue of their common traits.</p>

<p>Finally, trying to limit a particular race from being "over-represented" on campus simply returns Harvard and the other elite schools back to the very murky and very ugly history of the "holistic" admissions system: Getting</a> In: The New Yorker</p>

<p>For those that are wondering, no I am not Asian.</p>

86

<p>
[quote]
Asians ARE a minority in this country

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that's sort of irrelevant in regards to college admissions, since they make up a more than significant amount of college applicants at the schools most of us are talking about.</p>

<p>
[quote]
which probably makes them even more of a minority.

[/quote]

again, we are talking about college admissions.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Finally, trying to limit a particular race from being "over-represented" on campus simply returns Harvard and the other elite schools back to the very murky and very ugly history of the "holistic" admissions system

[/quote]

i don't buy into the whole Jewish comparison thing... i have yet to see anyone on CC explain how the two are truly similar. even if i did buy it, i would accuse those same people, who claim they are being discriminated against, as discriminating against African Americans and Hispanics (in most cases). these same people blame African Americans and Hispanics for Affirmative Action (and the holistic admissions practice) disadvantaging them. however, did African Americans and Hispanics create Affirmative Action? is it African Americans and Hispanics who decide how it's applied? was it African Americans and Hispanics who created the practice of holistic admissions? nope, nope, nope.</p>

<p>it was Caucasians. basically, anybody who is upset over AA should not be targeting the societal scape goats (African Americans and Hispanics); get mad at them. quit belittling the accomplishments of underrepresented minorities like the OP.</p>

87

<p>I started to read this thread and was baffled by the arrogance and ignorance displayed by some posters who consider themselves to be Harvard caliber, glad to see some people stand up and a productive discussion growing out of this.</p>

88

<p>I'm tired of ppl saying this, you dont get accepted because of your race you. It depends also on the amount of money your parent(s) have... thats URM!! There are rich AA and Hispanics you know. Its those who arent that are at a disadvantage to the rest of the rich society.</p>

<p>& FYI the MINORITY who get into these schools work their butts off to be where they are. They did not get tutored every week, or pay their way through life. It is due to this that they are held up to the admin. office. Do you know how easy it is to give up when you have nothing?</p>

89

<p>^^ You aint neva lied!!!</p>

90

<p>Why is everyone getting sidetracked? I thought this forum was about the worst statistics to be accepted into Harvard.. but what Rosh says is right, people especially minorities work harder than most to make it even though they start off with less</p>

91

<p>I get the feeling that many are complaining, because they think that the system is unfair.</p>

<p>Don't worry...there are many non-URM, non-legacy, non-athletes who get in to good schools for no "perceivable" good reason. Meeting these people will sincerely **** you off. After a while, you'll learn to get over it and make the best of your situation, whatever it may be. </p>

<p>There will always be many people who were luckier than you were (legacy, athlete, maybe URM...), and there will always also be a few who had it much harder than you did (internationals). Comparing yourself to these people will only make you angry (or confused); just go about your business, and try not to think about it too much.</p>

92

<p>Yea - of course he got in because he was Latino. It could not possibly be that he gained acceptance because of his credentials outside of the SAT - a test you take in a squeaky chair located in a hot, packed, public school gym. Rather, he was only accepted because he was LAtino. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds. Harvard, with its 27,290 applicants can afford to turn away the best as we all know. I know plenty of WHITE kids who get in because of legacy, sports, or other special circumstances.</p>

93

<p>mfmedina....</p>

<p>I'm glad I read your whole post. I thought you were serious at first! hahaha....</p>

94

<p>As the OP of the thread I think this kind of discussion, involving about 7,000 views, serves as a source of enlightenment and understanding about A.A.</p>

<p>Also: posters have digressed from main topic.</p>

95

<p>
[quote]
The purpose of Affirmative Action is to give minorities an equal chance for admission. It is by no means "racist."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is so sad you said that. Affirmative Action in no way gives minorities an equal chance. People continue to forget the Asians are a smaller minority in this country than Hispanics and African-Americans. It would also be insulting and unfair to say that Asians have historically had it easier than Latinos in this country. Just because their plights aren't learned in schools or publicized doesn't mean that their history can be ignored. Affirmative Action in education must change its definition.</p>

96

<p>guys, shut up already about AA and lets get back on topic</p>

<p>get back on topic!
get back on topic!
get back on topic!
get back on topic!</p>

97

<p>If you want to talk about who benefits the most from AA, it is White Women... so yeah</p>

98

<p>What does AA have to do with the worst statistics to be accepted?
Your race is not a statistic.
THEREFORE.
How about we stick to, "I heard about this kid who graduated 3 years ahead of me, his SATs were only ----, can you believe that? He must have written a fantastic essay. Like, Pulitzer Prize material. Lolz"</p>

<p>Because I'm actually interested in the REAL topic of this post. I couldn't care less about AA. It is what it is and me whining won't change that.</p>

99

<p>I knew someone who got into Brown with a SAT score between 2000-2150. Near the norm, but not spectacular.</p>

<p>However, she went to a very popular private school which is known for producing really good students, so the grade inflation there must be accepted. She also had alot of ECs, but that's everyone seems to have these days.</p>

<p>Oh, she was also black. I'm just saying that cause I'm sure alot of people wanted to hear that. Hahahaha. I shouldn't be instigating the AA argument but I can't help it, argh...</p>

<p>She declined and went to UC Santa Barbara.</p>

100

<p>@Newjack</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

ignorance. has any one ever been enslaved because they weren't handsome?
has their ever been systematic discrimination against people who weren't considered beautiful? have people below average height been sent to concentration camps? the answer is no to all of these.

[/QUOTE]

So tell me this, how many current applicants have been enslaved or sent to concentration camps because of their race. You're dredging up the past which has nothing to do with our current argument. Race was a lot more important 200 years ago yes, but now the way it shapes your life isn't even close to what it was before.</p>

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[QUOTE]

this is an incredibly stupid argument to make. you can't compare being handsome to being a particular ethnicity; it's so absurd i honestly can't even articulate why it's absurd. being tall, handsome, etc. is relative to those around you. for example, if you are 6' tall and are in the US you are considered average height, but, if you go to Japan, you would be considered a giant. with race, you are always a member of your race wherever you go.

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</p>

<p>When you go to japan and you are 6' tall, you are still 6' tall. That doesn't change, just like your race doesn't change. Yes you will still be Caucasian when you are in japan, but you will be treated as a foreigner and outsider. Race is similar to height in this way, while the actual values don't change, people's reactions to your race/height do change geographically.</p>

<p>Quote:
Being ugly can make it almost impossible to find a partner, can make people regard you with suspicion, and lower your paycheck.
there is no point in continuing this discussion if your're going to resort to make these foolish arguments and comparisons.

[/QUOTE]

In other words, this is how you run away from an argument that makes so much sense you don't know how to respond. I can link you to plenty of studies that show the affect of your appearance on your pay. And if you can't accept the fact that your appearance drastically affects your love life, you're ridiculous.</p>

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[QUOTE]

the last line, "I'm sure an exceptionally ugly asian person has a much harder time with the law than a black person," is just foolish.

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Way to go classifying my argument as foolish without even explaining why. My statement is completely true, I don't see how you can dispute it.</p>

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[QUOTE]

so what? your best friend is black so that means you know everything there is to know about black people?

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I'm just showing that I'm not nearly as sheltered as you paint me to be. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

anyways, this is contradictory to what you've been saying, "that racial diversity does not matter." "All this has made me aware of is how racial diversity does not matter, as their race has a very minimal affect on who they are. They are wonderful people whose qualities are virtually independent of their skin color." how would you have come to this realization had there been little to no racial diversity in your school/neighborhood? you wouldn't have been that's how. the reason why colleges find racial diversity to be valuable is because it helps people of different races come to different understandings about each other, like yours: "They are wonderful people whose qualities are virtually independent of their skin color." the only way people can learn the lesson you have learned is through direct interaction with other races.

[/QUOTE]

So what you're saying is that people form their opinions of the entirety of society based on the tiny slice of it they encounter at their college? Racial diversity DOESN'T matter because it doesn't affect how people view others at all! How many people revolutionize their racial views based on a short 4 year period of time? Are an extra 40 blacks at harvard really going to change the way their student body regards race?</p>

<p>Besides, your justification depends on the assumption that for some strange reason, prejudiced people will interact with those they are prejudiced against in the first place. Racial diversity won't change a thing if the groups stay segregated, which they often do. Most of the people at my racial diverse high school stick to their own racial groups. Asians hang out with asians. Whites hang out with whites. etc. Despite its wide range of races present on campus, the majority of students are still prejudiced.</p>

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[QUOTE]

things that affect you the most in life are family background, socioeconomic class, and race. i think it's pretty hard to argue that being an orphan is better than being overweight person. i think it's pretty hard to argue that being poor is better than being ugly. i think it's pretty hard to argue that it's better to have to deal with all predjudices towards any minority than being socially inept.

[/QUOTE]

You obviously have no idea how hard it is to go through life with no friends because you cannot figure out how to socialize. Do you know how much disrespect you get because you are obese?</p>

<p>It's funny how you say race affects your life so much yet provide absolutely no evidence other than 200 year old examples.</p>

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[QUOTE]

also, if an individual feels that such things have influenced their lives more than three factors i listed, then they have the opportunity to discuss it in their essay.</p>

<p>Honestly, for the majority of people, race doesn't affect their lives much either. Why not treat race the same then, and just have people talk about it in their essays?</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

awful argument... "fat kids...beaten up?" "cruel looking faces..random searches?" dude...? wow...

[/QUOTE]

Awful argument....how? I am relating the various forms of prejudice that people undergo on a daily basis. For some reason, you consider it insignificant. </p>

<p>Really, the way you criticize without explaining is much worse than any arguments I bring up. All i'm getting from your response is "you're wrong because...i'm too clueless to know why, but you're wrong"</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

oh ok... so being obese is like being sent to a concentration camp and losing almost all of your belongings? hmmm... maybe it's more like being enslaved and considered "property"?

[/QUOTE]

If any applicant has been sent to a concentration camp or been enslaved, i'm sure they can place it in their essays. If the way their life was influenced by their race isn't essay worthy...why is it so important?</p>

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[QUOTE]

this is stupid. all of those things don't affect your life as much as your family background, race, and socio-economic class. most of the things you listed, like not having friends, could be remedied if the kid was filthy rich.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah i'm sure a white guy who is 4'5" has a much easier time than a 6' tall Mexican American. I'm sure his height didn't affect his life in any significant way.</p>

<p>You're really just making ignorant assumptions. Height matters a lot. As the kid who has to look up when talking to his friends, I can tell you how much my short stature has influenced my life. You have no idea how horrible it is to be taunted day after day about it, deserted by those who would otherwise befriend you, not be able to get a single date to dances, and being beaten up in the bathrooms.</p>

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[QUOTE]

if for some reason it did significantly influence the kid's life he could write about it in his essay. besides this sort of kid typically doesn't even have trouble excelling in school. ivy league schools aren't exactly known for having the most social, good looking, athletic, etc. kids.

[/QUOTE]

So why not make all of the UMRs write about their race in their essays? Again if they have no essay worthy racial experiences, why is their race important?</p>

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[QUOTE]

you're done.

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Great response. If you don't have the intellectual ability to respond to my arguments, just say so. Your lack of response just proves that you cannot find a flaw with what I said</p>

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[QUOTE]

you're done. if you want to have an actual discussion, please stop making stupid arguments.

[/QUOTE]

If by stupid argument you mean insightful argument that you are too stubborn to acknowledge, no I will not refrain from making them. If you refuse to accept look-ism as a reality, you are just as bad as those who do not believe in racism.</p>