<p>...at a little-known LAC like Ohio Wesleyan?</p>
<p>Ohio Weslyan and UCal-Berkeley are almost polemic opposites, thus begging the questions "how" and "why" a student applied to both. The answer should, therefore, be easy for a particular individual to determine.</p>
<p>Assuming you knew what you were getting into when you applied to both colleges, why not? I mean, this has all the ingredients of another "which is better?" thread when the truth of the matter is, that they are both very good at what they do.</p>
<p>How much will Ohio Wesleyan cost you? OWU costs $45,000/year to attend. Unless they give you a hefty scholarship, we are talking about a $100,000+ cost difference over 4 years. Of course, should your folks be very wealthy and the cost difference is insignificant to you, chose the school that fits you better. I just can't understand how one would forego the #1 public university in the US in favor of a LAC that probably isn't even ranked among the top 100 in the nation. If you were chosing Grinnell or Carleton or Davidson over Cal, I'd understand. But OWU over Cal is beyond my capacity. There is a point when "fit" doesn't justify the choice.</p>
<p>She/He is talking about OWU for free vs. Berkeley at possibly full OOS tuition. It's almost the inverse of the old argument in favor of flagship u. vs expensive private; here, the expensive school <em>is</em> the flagship u.</p>
<p>I'd go with OWU because I'd pick just about anything over Ca. But for you it might be different. If you really think Berkeley is worth it then go there if cost isn't really an issue.</p>
<p>My bad Johnwesley. In that case, the decision becomes much harder to make.</p>
<p>It's nice to know that not everyone would jump off the face of the earth to attend Berkeley...that's all I keep hearing</p>
<p>Depends on the big picture. I have a friend who went undergrad to state schools and graduated top in her class. She went on to get her PhD at Brown with a great fellowship. She had such great research experience when she graduated that she had great and exciting job offers. She also had no debt. This is such an individual decision, no rights and wrongs</p>
<p>Berkeley. (Then again, I'm biased.)</p>
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It's nice to know that not everyone would jump off the face of the earth to attend Berkeley...that's all I keep hearing
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<p>There are plenty of people who would not attend Berkeley's undergraduate under any circumstances. It's all a matter of individual preferences and ... available choices, not mention staying away from the firewater.</p>
<p>umm...</p>
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There are plenty of people who would not attend Berkeley's undergraduate under any circumstances.
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<p>Another cheap shot eh??? I sure know plenty of people chose Berkeley over not-so-hot , mediocre private schools like usc, pepperdine, claremont mckenna college (sp?). If one is talking about Berkeley vs. top privates like Stanford, Caltech, yes, one choose carefully considering many factors like fit? cost?. </p>
<p>Universities with Highest Number of Individual Programs in the Top 10 [NRC]</p>
<p>35 Berkeley
31 Stanford
26 Harvard
22 Princeton
20 MIT
19 Cornell
19 Yale
18 Chicago
15 Penn
14 UC San Diego
14 Columbia
14 Michigan
14 Wisconsin</p>
<p><a href="http://www.grad.berkeley.edu/publica...kings_1995.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.grad.berkeley.edu/publica...kings_1995.pdf</a> </p>
<p>In fact, Berkeley is the school that stands out for its impressive caliber. It is very large but the achievements of its faculty and students put most of the Ivy League schools to shame. </p>
<p>Now, let?s look at how a Nobel Prize winner relates to a school. The only such attribution used by the Nobel Prize Committee itself is the university at which the scholar was teaching or researching at the time the prize was awarded. (That may, in fact, be long after the work that led to the prize.) Here is a link to the official list:</p>
<p><a href="http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/l...versities.html%5B/url%5D">http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/l...versities.html</a> </p>
<p>If you disregard Nobel prizes for medicine, then the list looks like this:</p>
<p>20 Harvard
16 Stanford
15 Berkeley, U. of Chicago
13 Cambridge, Columbia
12 Cal Tech, MIT
9 Princeton, Max Planck Institute</p>
<p>However you slice it, one thing is certain: Whether your intended major is a techie (EE or Chemistry) or non-techie (History or Sociology or English), you will get an excellent education from Berkeley. </p>
<p>Now getting back to the original question of Berkeley vs. free OWU, I?d take Berkeley if I were you. But if money is a real issue, take that free (slow) ride and take it easy</p>
<p>It is very hard to compare the two schools unless we know something about you and your relative preferences. I'd actually pick Ohio Wesleyan vs Berkeley even if the cost were the same. But then again, I care about different things. I care about smaller classes, liberal arts environment, more faculty attention, more emphasis on teaching than research and % good placements in my field of study. Berkeley might have some better stats than OWU in some regards but they are only relevant if you are the average guy going to Berkeley and the only think that you care about is exactly that: the average stats. This is unlikely to be the case. Figure out what it is that you want to get out of your experience in college, rank them in terms of relative importance, see how each school differs in these regards, talk to people who are already there and what their experience has been in these dimensions and then go with your gut feeling.</p>
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However you slice it, one thing is certain: Whether your intended major is a techie (EE or Chemistry) or non-techie (History or Sociology or English), you will get an excellent education from Berkeley.
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</p>
<p>I think it's more accurate to say that it really depends on your personality and your fit with Berkeley. I know a lot of people who got quite * poor * educations at Berkeley, chiefly because their style didn't mesh well at all with Berkeley. Not everybody does well in a large public school environment like Berkeley that offers relatively little advising or handholding. The way I would characterize Berkeley is a school with excellent resoruces, but also a school in which you have to be highly aggressive, in fact sometimes downright pushy, to fully access those resources. Many people wilt in that kind of environment.</p>
<p>I'll give you an example. I know a guy who went to Berkeley for EECS, and just got absolutely creamed in his classes, and promptly flunked out. Every time he asked for office hours help from his profs and TA's, he would just get the cold shoulder - i.e. they would say things like "Oh, you don't know such-and-such concepts? Then you shouldn't be in the class.", and not offer any aid at all. I mean, really, what kind of help is that? If he's asking you for help in office hours, by definition, it must mean that he doesn't know what's going on and that he's not doing well. If you don't want to help the guy, at least you can point him to some books that you think he can use to catch up. They didn't want to do even that. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, his girlfriend (now his wife) went to a small no-name local school with no prestige and no top programs. But the school offered excellent support. Hence, she graduated on time. He was amazed at some of the stories of the kind of support she was getting at her school - how she had access to tutors and profs who actually gave her useful advice and help, rather than badgering her about why she was even in the class. Meanwhile, he still not only doesn't have a degree, his academic record is ruined because of his experience at Berkeley. Surely you must agree that it's worlds better to get a degree from a no-name school than to flunk out of Berkeley. </p>
<p>What I would say is this. Berkeley is a quite decent school for those students who are doing well. But it can be a cold and unforgiving place if you are doing poorly. And the problem is, you can never be sure which group you will fall into. It depends on your personality, it depends on what major you choose, in short, it depends on a host of complex interactions that are difficult to predict.</p>
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not-so-hot , mediocre private schools like usc, pepperdine, claremont mckenna college (sp?).
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<p>Um WOW Claremont is not-so-hot and mediocre????? I realize this is really irrelevant to the original question but so is all the random flaming on this thread, so...can someone please explain how CMC is mediocre??</p>
<p>Rabban...just to tell you...cmc is way harder to get in than ucb...and seriously you are streching ucb's reputation way too far o.O i know that cal is crazy for grad school but to compare it w/ schools you are comparing w/ for undergrad is close to madness o.O</p>
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It's nice to know that not everyone would jump off the face of the earth to attend Berkeley...that's all I keep hearing
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<p>And I think that's the real point of this thread -- i.e. to make fairly transparent claims about Cal. You posted another thread a couple of days ago in which you said you were thinking about an ivy league school and asked to compare Cal to various private schools.</p>
<p>Are you really applying to the Ivy League and Cal and a school like OWU? Or are you just wasting our time? These types schools are very different; I have a hard time believing that the purpose of your posts is just to make statements rather than actually figure something out. What's your point? Oh yeah, as I said, the above is.</p>
<p>admission wise, cmc is definitely more selective than ucb especially for in-state applicants. back to the original question, if i were you i'd take advantage of the free tuition and go with owu then transfer to berkeley my junior year. not only you'll safe a great deal but you'll also be able to enjoy the smaller intro classes your first two years.</p>
<p>Bedhead, if you actually read my other post, you would understand the purpose of my questions. My question for you is: why do you feel the need to attack people on an open forum?</p>
<p>I would pick Ohio Wesleyan, since they are giving you the scholarship. It will be much more personal than Berkeley. I also do not consider it unknown. It has a good reputation. If you can afford Berkeley out of state, you can afford to transfer out of Ohio Wes to a bigger place or different place if it does not work out. You have nothing to lose by going there, and a lot to gain.</p>