Got into Notre Dame EA and as some of my reachier schools start to come in its looking like notre dame could very well be the most prestigious school I get into.
I’m worried about the LGBT climate at Notre Dame. When I applied I was under the impression it was a nominally catholic school and it wasn’t a big deal. Now it’s starting to look like a really religious school.
There are no (as far I can tell) LGBT groups supported by the administration and sexuality isn’t even listed in the Non discrimination clause.
I’m coming from a fairly conservative family and wanted college to be a free place and I’m not sure if Notre dame has that. I’m still waiting on Rice (which may be worse lol) and Uchicago (which I don’t have much of a shot at). Otherwise it looks like it will be Notre Dame vs the UCs and I’m honestly leaning towards the UCs atm.
ND certainly is not nominally Catholic - indeed ND takes its Catholic identity seriously. With that said most would probably describe ND as a progressive Catholic institution that recognizes the necessity of open thought and exchange of ideas to being a world class university.
Whether ND’s Catholic identity means you wouldn’t find it to be a ‘free place’ I think depends more on other aspects of the type of person you are. I don’t think your sexual orientation is nearly as important as your values in terms of how comfortable you will feel at ND. I have several gay friends that are ND grads that loved their time there and love the university.
In many ways I would compare ND to Pope Francis, in that they both emphasize humility and service to fellow man, engagement with non-Catholics (and also Catholics that may disagree with Church teaching), and mercy and love rather than judgment, while at the same time not compromising fundamental teachings.
If you are hostile to and/or highly offended by the Catholic Church or its teachings, then you should probably choose another school. If you are able to see the Church and its social teachings as a force for good in the world, in spite of its flaws and individual areas where you may disagree with it, and if you are a respectful, open-minded person searching for the truth, who also loves tradition and maybe football, you would probably end up loving Notre Dame more than you might guess. If you haven’t visited campus, I encourage you to make the effort to do so before making your final decision.
Hi! Congrats on your acceptance first of all. Second, my brother is a sophomore at ND and his roommate is gay- his roommate is very very happy there and has a great group of friends. Notre Dame is a very accepting school and I highly doubt you would feel discriminated against or unsupported there. Check out this news article from ND a couple of years ago: http://news.nd.edu/news/30481-notre-dame-enhances-support-for-gay-and-lesbian-students/. Overall, ND is an amazing school and my brother absolutely loves it there, as does his roommate. I wish you all the best with your college decision!
Hi-first congrats on your acceptance. I highly encourage you to visit campus and see for yourself. My son is at ND and I think he is representative of most students in that he is very open to everyone and has friends that identify as LGBT. They do have a PRISM organization at ND- check out this webpage http://www.grc.nd.edu/lgbtq-allies/ , there is lots of info, as well as a link to the PRISM organization. I would think you could reach out to the PRISM group to see if you can get some first hand info from students as to their experiences and what they think the climate is.
Just as an aside, though, for anyone else reading this thread…that whoever gave you the idea that ND is “nominally Catholic” really steered you wrong. I believe it to be an open and welcoming place–no one is forced to profess a specific ideology, or attend Mass, etc…but the Catholic identity is not something they try to downplay. Good luck with your decision!
The “nominally Catholic” is probably coming from those hard-line Catholics who think ND has strayed from its core Catholic identity. ND is very Catholic, but has supported causes and individuals that have angered conservative Catholics. Hosting performances of the Vagina monologues, honoring President Obama, and offering benefits to same-sex couples once state law officially recognized same-sex marriage are considered to have damaged Notre Dame’s Catholic soul. They do embrace people of all faiths or no faith - but at the core it is a Catholic institution.
First off thanks everyone for the advice, its been a big help.
@4X529s Not a fan of football, but I do enjoy basketball. I have no doubt ND tries to make itself an accepting environment and would never directly contribute to discrimination. I just feel that when ND puts itself out there as a Catholic magnet its opening the gates to a wide variety of Christians and potentially homophobic ones.
@meghank17 Its great they’re doing all that but i’m still a bit reserved towards their not including sexual orientation in their Non-Discrimination Clause. Its disappointing they aren’t able to go the full mile and change it.
@bjdkin I just sent an email to one of the students involved. I’ll see how it goes!
@InigoMontoya It was actually a very loosely catholic friend of mine who told me. His parents on the other hand are extremely conservative so yea.
@TomSrOfBoston Thats not really fair. As a gay student I have every right to be worried about going to a school that is placed on the “most lgbt-unfriendly colleges in America”
I’m not clueless. It is a catholic school and lets not pretend Catholicism is inherently pro-lgbt in any sense of the term. It would be foolish for a gay student to wander into Notre Dame without a few concerns. I’m open to the idea of attending Notre Dame, but not before I do my research.
“I’m not clueless. It is a catholic school and lets not pretend Catholicism is inherently pro-lgbt in any sense of the term. It would be foolish for a gay student to wander into Notre Dame without a few concerns. I’m open to the idea of attending Notre Dame, but not before I do my research.”
This is a curiosity of mine. I’ve never understood why people choose places that make it clear what they are all about and then object to what they are all about once enrolled. This is true about students with learning difficulties applying to very rigorous schools and then complaining that it is not a nice soft place that is sensitive to their aversion to pressure. I feel the same way about this sort of thread. Why would you choose a school that is religious if you suspect that the religion is not accepting of things that are important to you. Am I missing something? Are you trying to be provocative? Odd!
@lostaccount I was under the impression due to family and friends that Notre Dame was only nominally Catholic. Had I known this is not the case I probably wouldn’t have applied.
Also are you insinuating that Notre Dame is so homophobic that my applying there is equivalent to
“students with learning difficulties applying to very rigorous schools and then complaining that it is not a nice soft place that is sensitive to their aversion to pressure?”
Because if so I could use that information right about now.
@secretlyAdog If you attend ND, you WILL end up at least an ND football fan guaranteed!! I couldn’t have cared less about football before I went there myself many years ago, but it only takes one ND home game to suck you in. And basketball is strong too - the men’s team is usually in the top 25, and the women’s team is consistently #2… they just can’t seem to beat UConn!
I get your point, and I don’t disagree that on balance there will be more students at ND that are less accepting of homosexuality than at many other schools. And I would expect you will find fewer gay students. It’s definitely something to consider. But going back to what I said before about how other aspects of who you are probably more important than your sexuality, if you believe in God, or at least are somewhat of a spiritual person and believe in something bigger than yourself, and you are service minded and believe that giving back is critically important, the positives of ND might outweigh the negative. ND is a special place - I’m not sure any other school has the sense of family and purpose that ND has.
But if that doesn’t sound like you at all, and you are just trying to talk yourself into ND because it’s the highest ranked school you got/get into, you probably should give up a little academic prestige and find a place that you identify with more.
@secretlyAdog “safer”? I understand your concern but no one is going to attack you and I guarantee that. Unless you are going to flaunt around your homosexuality within a Catholic school, no one is going to even know of your homosexuality except your friends. So I do not understand how this is a concern. ND is not a backwater fundamentalist organization. Everyone is welcome there. Of course as a Catholic school, it inherently attracts Catholic and Christian people but ultimately its not a church but a university. It’s UNIVERSITY of ND and you should not concern yourself with the presence of the church more so than the university itself. The church is just an additional presence that is available for those who want to continue close relationship with their Catholic faith. If you really need one then make one, but it’s just that most people there do not support the societal progression for homosexuality because it inherently goes against what they believe in.
I’m a Catholic. You’re gay. My hair is brown. What color is yours?
I am sorry you have to worry that it might not be a welcoming environment, but in my experience being gay is becoming pretty mainstream. Given that even the Pope has stated “Who am I to judge?”, I don’t know that you need to fear the institution of the Catholic Church so much. Society is progressing.
Good luck whatever you decide, and I hope wherever you wind up, that you experience only support and opportunities to grow.
Followed the link to the article where you got your information. Beneath the story was some commentary:
"Not only is this out of date, there is no explanation of the factors or rationale that went into this ranking.
You may want to visit http://www.campusprideindex.org for the only National LGBT Friendly Campus Climate Index that is actually vetted through a process of scoring by Higher Education administrators working to create safe LGBT spaces on college campuses."
Other commenters also noted editorial corrections needed.
Were you forced to apply? I’m wondering if a parent pressured you into applying and you really don’t want to go. I think some of the articles about it being bad are from a couple of years ago and you have to question the motives of the authors. I did find this from 2005. I think you should visit and contact some gay students. In the end don’t attend a school you hate but have the right excuse.
So much disinformation out there it can be hard to figure things out.
Notre Dame is outwardly Catholic. They have priests on campus and religious symbols. The other things they do are pretty standard for most college campuses. They have groups that help the less fortunate. They have chapels. It is the biggest of the Catholic colleges in the US, but it is also one of the least Catholic in practice.
The position of the Church is decidedly not to hate gay people. If you are going there to somehow get the Church to change its position on the morality of homosexual acts, that is another story. It is not really any different than the position on premarital sex for anyone. The university pretty well stays out of it either way, if anything they are considerably more ‘pro-gay’ than the Church as a whole.
Don’t worry about lists. Talk to students who go there. For some people being ‘unfriendly’ means that you are not jumping for joy and encouraging a behavior. Like I said, unless you are expecting to change the Church, or really hate religion in general, you will just be at a great school.
Actually, ND is considered one of the conservative "top Catholic colleges "(vs. Georgetown and Holy Cross). But it doesnt mean you wouldn’t feel “safe”.
On the other hand, you’re right to wonder:
will people make homophobic statements around you, putting you in the awkward position of keeping silent or having to speak up (you don’t necessarily want to be insulted even inadvertently nor do you want to be an advocate if you don’t feel like it)
will you find enough people to date
will it be accepted for you to act affectionate with your boyfriend/girlfriend in public
will it be ok for you to dance with your date
Talk with current gay students and see what they have to say.
@Torveaux Describe what you mean by “least Catholic in practice”. When I visited, I certainly did not pick up that feeling. With 80% of students being Catholic, dorm masses occurring weekly (I believe), and everything else you mentioned, I don’t think it’s accurate to classify Notre Dame as a school that isn’t very Catholic in practice. Maybe not as Catholic as some smaller schools, but among the top Catholic universities, I would rank ND at 1 or 2.
The schools that are considered most Catholic in practice are those on the Newman list. Notre Dame receives hatred from conservative Catholics for reasons I mentioned earlier, the latest being gay marriage. As long as gay marriage was not legal, there were no issues - the Catholic church teaches that any sexual relations outside of marriage are sinful, and if gay people could not marry, then the church’s teaching that they should remain celibate was defensible.
Once gay marriage became legal, conservative Catholics took umbrage at any school that didn’t try for a Hobby Lobby-type exemption to allow them to refuse to recognize marriages that, while legal in the eyes of the law, are not sanctioned by the Church. Notre Dame chose to recognize these marriages, thereby earning them the label of “not Catholic in practice”. So Notre Dame as an institution is more likely to be accepting of gays, however many of the individual students and faculty may not be, and many do not truly understand the position of the Catholic church on the issue and condemn gay people. D is at a Jesuit institution that has long had outwardly gay faculty, including married gay faculty, and there are some professors who still are very much against gay marriage and are very vocal with their beliefs.
Conservative Catholics have even more disdain for schools like BC and Georgetown.
It is promising that our current Pope has a much more Christian attitude, however many conservative Catholics do not agree with Pope Francis on all things.
@4X529s said it really well: "if you believe in God, or at least are somewhat of a spiritual person and believe in something bigger than yourself, and you are service minded and believe that giving back is critically important, the positives of ND might outweigh the negative. ND is a special place - I’m not sure any other school has the sense of family and purpose that ND has.
But if that doesn’t sound like you at all, and you are just trying to talk yourself into ND because it’s the highest ranked school you got/get into, you probably should give up a little academic prestige and find a place that you identify with more."
My D is at Notre Dame and not Catholic - she is not religious at all. However, she has experienced the sense of family and purpose that really defines ND, and loves it there.
OP, do not attend if you are just looking for prestige. Have you visited at all?