Would it be safer to just go elsewhere as a gay student?

Hi OP-just had to jump on one more time here. As the parent of a current student. I commend you for asking these questions and searching out the proper fit. My view is that you shouldn’t just “go somewhere else”, etc. I don’t think you are any different than any high school student who is trying to narrow down their choices and is drawn to what they feel is a prestigious school.

I would like to add to my previous recommendation (contacting the Prism group), with one more item. Maybe contact the LGBT groups in a few of the other schools you are looking at so you can compare/contrast. I love the suggestions that @MYOS1634 gave you for things to consider, those are things to think about for the other schools you are considering. Good luck!

If you were my son, I would probably be recommending that you go consider other options. Fit is so important, and these are going to be four very important (and hopefully fun!) years of your life. Even though I’m sure most people at ND would be supportive, there will still be many who are not as comfortable with someone being gay, even in this modern day. Since it is a Catholic school, many students will be coming from religious families and have more conservative values, to whatever degree. It just seems like you would be so much happier at a school that has a strong LGBT community and a lot of support and acceptance. And at ND there would certainly be fewer gay students than at a lot of other schools, which would be a bummer. It’s a great school, but I just wonder if it’s really the best fit for you? Unless there is some really compelling reason to go, I’m not sure what the big benefit is, other than the prestige factor. Personally, I’d rank happiness over prestige any day, but I understand it is a big issue in this process. Best of luck, whatever you decide! :slight_smile:

@secretlyAdog first congrats on the acceptance! I was also accepted EA and have since then attended the Spring Vis in February. I thought you would find it interesting to know that the current student body president at ND is openly gay and in fact came and spoke to us prospects about his journey through ND. As far as I am concerned, ND’s prestigious name draws many non-Catholics and those who are Catholic students are going to be more progressively Catholic because we grew up in the same era as you: it is no longer an anomaly to be gay or to know someone who is gay. ND is a very progressive catholic institution that really focused on the faith embodied within Catholicism rather than the religion itself. I know this because I have two brothers who went there too.
My advice for you is to not let other people’s judgements cloud your own opinions. Go visit campus and get a sense of the atmosphere and the student interactions. Obviously if ND chose you, they seem to think you’ll fit in just fine.

@TomSrOfBoston Can I just start this off by saying its ironic your profile picture says empower? If Notre Dame is a school I can be happy at I will not throw in the towel and walk away because its the easy way out. BTW you never answered my question.

@MYOS1634 Thanks for the advice. I suppose this thread has me leaning more towards not attending as the general sentiment is either “its catholic so don’t expect anything” or “my brother’s roommate has a good friend who is gay and happy probably”. I’m talking to some gay students so I’ll see.

@bjdkin Yes I agree a collegeconfidential thread is not the best way to get an accurate summary of lgbt life at Notre Dame.

@chris17mom I will choose a different school if I believe ND to be a bad environment for LGBT students. I won’t be able to utilize Notre Dame’s excellent academics if I’m miserable the whole time.

@arifischer I have no doubt ND itself is progressive, my concerns lie with the students it draws. However I do think you’re right, CC is no replacement for speaking with actual gay students.

Thanks everyone.

Any Catholic who is not welcoming or at least tolerant of alternate lifestyles would not typically pick Notre Dame. There are many considerably more religiously conservative schools in the US than Notre Dame. The existence of Mass and religious icons does not make a school Catholic to those who follow the actual Catechism. There are millions of Catholics who were raised as such, but really do not understand their faith. Some non-Catholics would see any representation of the faith as overly religious. While Inigo Montoya is right, the conservative schools will be listed on the Cardinal Newman Society list, Notre Dame has been a very liberal Catholic university dating back well before the gay marriage issue was really even a thing. On many of the social issues, Notre Dame takes a very agnostic approach. They talk the talk, but do not walk the talk. For our OP, this is a good thing.

OP, you will have no problems at Notre Dame unless you run into an individual who is just plain mean. That can happen at any school regardless of how ‘friendly’ they are to others.

Success at college can be measured in a number of ways. You have not described how you would measure success at college. You have not described your intended major and what ND offers to support your academic interest. You have expressed concerns, even fear, about the acceptance / treatment of LGBTs at ND. There has been comments about ND’s catholic, nominally catholic, progressively catholic, and conservatively catholic character. ND is not “nominally catholic” it is big tent catholic - it has all types.

I challenge you to answer to and for yourself - why Notre Dame? what any of the other schools on your list? If it is because it is the highest rated school that admitted you, then you may want to rethink your college selection process. (Read Gladwell’s article about the college rating process.) Find the school that offers what you want academically. Find the school that offers the social environment that supports you as a person. ND can be wonderful school for some student. For others, it may not be a fit at all.

The clearest statement about your thinking is revealed where you write: “I was under the impression due to family and friends that Notre Dame was only nominally Catholic. Had I known this is not the case I probably wouldn’t have applied.” That may be the best answer to your question of whether ND is a match for you.

Good luck at whatever school you choose.

I asked someone that graduated from Notre Dame some time ago what he thought about your dilemma, this is what he had to say, and that he hoped that it would help:

I’m nearly 25 years removed from campus, but I will tell you in my time there that LBGT issues were being maturely discussed on campus even then.

The ND campus that I know was loving and caring and the education I received actually moved me more towards being progressive in my personal beliefs and politics.

A quick search led me to this http://www.grc.nd.edu/lgbtq-allies/ which may be helpful.

While there are certainly some backwards ideas in the Catholic Church around LBGT issues, on the continuum of Christianity, Catholics tend to be more accepting and less hate-fueled when it comes to social issues around sexuality.

Here’s the official campus statement http://friendsandallies.nd.edu/

As a recent ND grad, here’s my input.

While I was there, we had to fight for there to be an official gay-straight alliance group (now called PRISM). It was a big push with huge student and faculty support, including the support of several priests on campus. Now the group is officially sanctioned and by all indications doing well. However, the administration did not add sexuality to their non-discrimination clause, which we had also pushed for, which was a huge disappointment. I think if anyone on campus is ever abused for their sexuality (likely by another student), they should sue the school for refusing to officially condemn such discrimination. To not misrepresent their statements, however, I should note that when they refused, the administration did condemn such discrimination, but seemed to think that they’d be forced to let gay couples marry in the Basilica if they amended the non-discrimination clause. It’s still a shitty move, and I have problems with the administration on a lot of issues.

The Catholic religion definitely has a substantial role at ND, and you see that in the more conservative policies towards campus life, such as the single-gender dorms. While, funny enough, gay students get the lucky break of being able to be in their romantic partners’ dorm rooms at all hours of the night while straight couples have to part at 12am/2am (in theory, many just hide), some of the male dorm cultures, especially freshman year, could feel alienating to LGBT students. I didn’t see that myself (being straight), but heard from a couple of gay male students that freshman orientation was “hetero-normative” (you run around and sing to the girls’ dorms, partner with them for activities and a dance). Others didn’t mind, but take that how you will.

I’d say that while the Democrat-Republican split in the student body is about 50-50 (someone always holds a mock election in presidential election years and it comes out like that), which is conservative for a college but representative for society at large (the Catholic population in the U.S. actually tends a little more to the left), at least 80% of students are pro-gay rights. Including most of the Catholic students. The professors in the College of Arts and Letters also tend strongly to the progressive side, while the other colleges’ professors rarely get involved in anything identifiably political. Most of the A&L professors had solidarity signs in their offices during the fight, at least in the few departments I regularly visited. I believe the spouses of gay faculty receive normal benefits.

I knew a lot of LGBT students at ND. Mostly gay and lesbian students, but a couple bisexual and one trans student. There’s definitely a community, though likely a smaller one than you would find at a public or secular university. I met few students who thought less of others for being gay, and like I said, no more than 20% were against gay marriage. Even several of my otherwise conservative Paul Ryan-fanboy friends would be insulted if you even questioned them on it. However, those few who are against gay rights can be vocal, and there’s a small “family values” club that often writes inflammatory letters in the student newspaper. Not to mention the College Republicans sponsoring a visit from Ann Coulter. And while the large majority of ND students are in favor of gay rights, including marriage, a lot of those still aren’t what you’d call super-sensitive. A couple years ago, a big chant broke out in part of the student section at a football game singing a song about how “Zahm’s gay.” (Zahm is a male dorm that has a reputation for being weird, like running through the library naked during finals week. There were also rumors that more sexual assaults occurred at parties there, but I also heard that of a couple other male dorms.)

I would say that if a strong gay community with no acceptance issues is the most important factor on your list, I would choose one of the University of California schools over ND. Acceptance is definitely growing, but there are still some bumps on the road, and it may be uncomfortable for you at times. While I can’t truly understand the struggles of LGBT students, I can sympathize with such discomfort, which I sometimes felt as a student coming from poverty at a university filled with the well-off. However, the students and faculty are for the large part accepting and good people. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t several bad eggs, but there are more good. And on social issues other than gay marriage and abortion, Notre Dame is more progressive than the average university. They take Catholic social teaching seriously.

This isn’t written to encourage or discourage you. Notre Dame is a wonderful place, but it has several issues that make it wrong for a lot of people. I don’t regret my decision to attend in the least, and the friends I made there are the best of my life.

A note: Don’t pick Notre Dame because it’s the most prestigious university you got into. It has a different culture from most schools, and not just in terms of religion. It is likely the most athletic major university, with over 75% of entering students having been varsity athletes in high school. Most people play rec sports and everyone (and I mean recorded at 98% or more) goes to the football games. There are no fraternities or sororities. Most students stay in the dorms for three years. The dorms are single-gender, you stay in the same one every year (except for the rare transfer), they have mascots and sports teams and rivalries, and they are usually the basis of your social circle, especially freshman year. The campus is beautiful, but South Bend gets cold as hell in the winter. All in all, it’s a great place for the people who fit there, but anyone just going down a list of deeply flawed rankings may be unhappy with what they get.

My advice is to visit campus if you can. Do a prospective student shadow day or two. You can stay in a dorm, your host student will bring you to classes or clubs or parties, and you can get a sense of what things are like. Maybe email whoever’s involved with PRISM now and get their meeting schedule, so you can visit at a time when you can attend one and talk to people.

I wish you luck in making your decision.

So many great answers! However, I fail to understand what he/she is asking for? Let’s see: if ND has a good old fraternity/community of LGBT then I attend; if not, I will go somewhere else? Where in that equation we talk about the main reason we choose to go to College? To learn, to evolve, to become better human beings… It would never cross my mind to question whether there are enough blondes, 5.8’ or taller that fit my sexual preferences as a basis to choose a College? I am wrong here? Isn’t one’s sexuality something of a private nature. It seems that IT IS NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR and, well, it should not be. That idea/sentiment is what gives rise to ghettos. My humble opinion.

Someone’s sexuality is an inherent part of who they are. If you think there’s no difference between dating only blondes of a certain height and same-sex dating - that’s admirable but not really how the world works. If an environment is not friendly to same-sex dating, that could make for a loney 4 years. Your sexuality is NOT private when you are out in public dating. Who you date shouldn’t be a problem, but reality is that it can be to some people. If someone spends 4 years not dating in order to keep their sexuality private - that’s not a great college experience. It’s not the only factor, but certainly an important one to consider.

With all due respect, we need to realize that we live in 2016. I would think advances have been made. Take countries that were long known for their homophobism. Latin America? Argentina? It was the first Country south of the Rio Grande to allow same sex marriage! Plenty of comments here stating what ND stands for. To me the whole thread is a charade. Is it safe? What are we talking about? He makes it sound as being gay in South Bend may be comparable to being Jewish in Berlin in 1938. Why? Don’t understand it.

Yalebound: clearly you live in an area where this isn’t a concern - good for you and count yourself lucky.
Also, no one’s speaking of genocide so don’t create a straw man argument.
But the issue is real in terms of

  • hostile vs. friendly atmosphere (I assume ND is good there)
  • dating scene
  • acceptance of same sex couples

@yalebound2020 being blonde would be a concern if you were thinking about moving to an area that has historically discriminated against blondes.

I had no idea what ND was like heading into this thread. I’ve learned that Notre dame is definitely a safe (physically) school but may not be the welcoming environment I’m searching for in a college.

I thank everyone for their input and wish you all luck in the college application process.

@MYOS1634 - Maybe a live in a Fantasy World but I fail to see / grasp / understand the SAFE part? Do you / anyone live in a part of the country where they still tar & feather people?

@secretlyAdog - I am not blonde; I like blondes : ) a lot… however, it wouldn’t be anywhere on my list when choosing a College. On a related note: are you saying that ND has historically discriminated against gays? I didn’t know that. If that is true; I rest my case.

@yalebound2020 Correct me if I’m wrong OP, but I think the main point of this thread was to gauge how supportive ND was/is regarding the LGBT community. As far as the word safe goes, I think you are interpreting it only in a literal sense, whereas OP wanted to know if he/she would be outcast or ridiculed or be a point of controversy over a life decision. While you are correct that the world, especially the USA, is advancing, it’s not like the Catholic Church promotes gay marriages. The church might teach us to love everyone the same, but that doesn’t mean that they accept gay marriages, and OP was asking whether that this lack of support from the Catholic Church would be the same at ND.

@IvyHopeful98 - The last I have heard from Pope Francis is the basics of LOVE ONE ANOTHER. I can quote the Bible but for what? If ND has 80% Catholics like I read on this thread… all the better because you are guaranteed 80% of people whose main focus is on loving each other regardless of whether they are gay or blonde or… I never gave much thought to whom my peers date or their sexual preference. That’s why I refuse to believe that this could be a problem at a place like ND.

@yalebound2020 Being gay is not comparable to liking blondes. No one is discriminated against for liking blondes. Catholicism has been synonymous with LGBT discrimination for centuries. I came here looking for some insight into ND once I found out it was Catholic.

@ivyhopeful98 You are correct.

The apparent thing about Catholicism and Homosexuality is that Catholicism opposes homosexuality. However, Christianity in general opposes a lot of things. Thus, apart from the obvious, most “sins” should be weighed no more than the other. One can safely assume that everyone lies, everyone struggles with lust, etc. In this way, the Church progressed by being more impartial to specific infractions. The Church will not support homosexuality but will accept homosexual people or rather all people. Under the name of institution, regardless of affiliation, there will be a certain freedom given the LGBT community, but, of course, a public sanction or some sort of internal restructuring may be impossible.

The Catholic church does not recognize legal gay marriage as it is not sanctioned by the Church. Official Catholic teaching is that homosexual people should be called to a life of celibacy as they cannot be married in the eyes of the Church. Pope Francis does call for us to not judge and to love one another. Day to day reality is often quite different. Many Catholic churches were on the forefront of pushing for state constitutional amendments to enforce laws that marriage is between one man and one woman only. They lost that battle at the federal level, but as private institutions many still fire faculty members for being gay. Which they legally can do. I wish we lived in a world where everyone loved one another, unfortunately for many that is far from reality.

Notre Dame has been more accepting than some Catholic colleges, however it is very reasonable to ask whether a gay person would feel welcome in the environment. The kids I know at ND would be welcoming, but there are likely to be many who are not. Other schools may offer a more accepting environment where the OP would feel comfortable being who they truly are, rather than trying to conform to an artificial norm.

Tar and feathering may not happen, but ostracism and even physical abuse still do. Anyone who has awareness of current political events would realize this.