Would you pay for ANY major?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Ordinary, about half the people on my corporate HR team have degrees in psychology. Most of the people at our PR agency have degrees in psychology. </p>

<p>But you have to do “hard” psychology (i.e. research based, not school counseling type courses.) Many corporate functions require good social science skills- interpreting data, drawing logical conclusions from charts, graphs and tables, developing a hypothesis and then figuring out how to acquire the data and evidence, etc. The head of our comp and benefits groups LOVES hiring psychology majors!</p>

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<p>Examples (although some may have had second majors as well, or may have taken some courses in typical areas of application as out-of-major electives):
<a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Math.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Math.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Just curious: would any of you have trouble paying for a major with a curriculum (at your kid’s specific school) that you find lacking in academic rigor?

<a href=“http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/HardTimes.2013.2.pdf[/url]”>http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/HardTimes.2013.2.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Granted, it is hard to tease out causation from this data. But I think the correlation is probably there, especially if we had a way to control for institution attended.

I’m not at all endorsing the opinions you reference, but I also don’t see how you apply the ‘trade school’ label in this case. What is the pedagogical distinction between, say, art history and mechanical engineering?</p>

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<p>It is interesting to hear about many who have bachelor’s degrees who do go back to CC and get training in a field where there are more job opportunities. The CC programs are now expanding so that the students can earn their certification in the specialized field + also get their bachelor’s degrees if they want. The students are strongly encouraged to get their bachelor’s degrees so they have more opportunities for advancement once they start their careers.</p>

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<p>“IF your graduate can not live on their own, pay off their own loans and support themselves in a reasonable life, then are you willing to continue to supplement them as adults?”</p>

<p>I know people in all income brackets who have helped their adult children both with and without degrees weather a layoff. Also, what some might consider “reasonable life” might not seem so to another set of parents. So, in the end, I think that’s up the the individual parents.</p>

<p>But for ME if a kid wants to do something that isn’t lucrative, I don’t see the corollary being “therefore I must support them”. To me, it’s, “If s/he has goals that are not lucrative, s/he must also figure out how to live on his/her own.” Life skills are part of the training we give our kids, are they not? If one of my kids went into a field that had risks of being low-income (like my BIL and acting), I would make sure s/he knew all the risks and rewards. And then I would help them figure out how to make it work. That’s not the same as supporting them financially. And that’s why I don’t see the insistence on majoring in only a small set of options. </p>

<p>Villagemom-you are one of the people who said there are degrees you will not pay for. If your kids are not pursuing STEM degrees, they must apparently be in fields you “approve”, unless they’ve found their own resources because you won’t help them. So let’s take STEM out of the equation. I still oppose forcing a child into a career path chosen by their parents. I still believe no study is wasted. I know too many people who have NEVER worked “in their field” and too many others who changed directions later on. ANY work experience is useful. Any (legal) path is worthy. My kids are not me and they have the right to live the lives THEY want-even if that means they’re following a “useless” path.</p>

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<p>Only on page one, but I think it depends on the student. Some students can make the best of the worst situation, and some kids can make the worst of the best situation. And everything in between.</p>

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<p>Fully agree here.</p>

<p>But what I find odd is that many do not seem to know or care what kind of job prospects graduates of different majors tend to find – sometimes much better or much worse than what is commonly assumed*. Students and parents would best be served by researching that topic rather than being surprised at graduation, so that they can plan accordingly (e.g. if the major leads to low paying job prospects, the student needs to live frugally and be more debt-averse).</p>

<p>*Typical example is the assumption that “STEM majors have good job prospects” even though that is not true for biology majors.</p>

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<p>Great post (180) Blossom! Whenever we look at statistics, we have to take into consideration that they include people - perhaps a great many people - who are just not willing to make necessary compromises once it becomes clear that plan A isn’t working out. There is really nothing wrong with being a struggling actor sharing a tiny apartment with a group of friends at age 23. If you’re still a starving artist living paycheck-to-paycheck as a 33 year old parent of two, there’s a problem. Being practical shouldn’t mean you don’t major in theater or art in college; it means that you have to know when to give up the dream - or at least put it on hold - when pursuing it becomes financially unsustainable. I think people who are willing to do that, especially if they’ll put their ego aside enough to temporarily take jobs they may consider “beneath” them or absolutely mind-numbing.</p>

<p>I feel the same way whenever I see articles about PhDs on welfare. I don’t want to blame the victim, and there certainly are people - both on the BA and PhD levels - who do everything right and still wind up struggling. But frequently, the people featured in these articles have two things in common: they have an “academia or bust” mentality and started PhD programs relatively late (often after bouncing around a few other advanced degree programs) and at a point where they already had family responsibilities.</p>

<p>At some point, people do have to face reality. I absolutely love studying literature, but if I hadn’t gotten into a program that offered me a stipend, I wasn’t going to go into debt to do it in the name of fulfilling a passion. I also want an academic job, but if I don’t get one, I’m prepared to go into high school teaching, or editing, or using my writing skills in PR or grant-writing. In the meantime, my stipend plus some extra tutoring I do comes to about 30K, which I’m living on quite nicely. I’m not in debt, and I’ve actually been able to save some money. True, some of my friends in other fields are already earning upwards of 100K, but so what? If I’m willing to live a less glamorous life, I don’t see why my parents should have cared that I was majoring in a “soft” field.</p>

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<p>"If I’m willing to live a less glamorous life, I don’t see why my parents should have cared that I was majoring in a “soft” field. "</p>

<p>YES! YES! YES! That’s EXACTLY what I’ve been saying! It’s YOUR decision! </p>

<p>There are so many paths to satisfaction, and I know many people in humanities-based jobs that supplement that work with other jobs so that they can do what they love. Or they paid their dues in low-level jobs to get their foot in the door. Or did something alternative to the original plan. None of them are living on mom and dad’s dime. They’re just not living the “glamorous” life the big salary jobs afford others. But they’ve CHOSEN that for themselves, so IMO, that’s fine.</p>

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<p>Blossom, I do love your post. And I agree that most of those who do get their degrees in whatever find their niches, especially if they are flexible and more quickly if they are intrepid.</p>

<p>However, yes, it is more difficult to find a job at about $40-60K right out of college when you graduate with a general liberal arts major or other field of study that is not job specific in an industry that has a lot of jobs available at those price ranges. The engineering major, the nursing major, the accountant, the computer science major are all going to have an easier time of it. My son graduated last year with a general math/econ degree, took off the year to travel, hang out, procrastinate in a job search, and, yet with his skill set was able to get job offers at a living wage with relocation allowance and benefits. A lot of his peers with higher GPAs and internships who started even senior year in college with the interview process are still on empty. There just aren’t the jobs out there for someone who is 22 years old with no specific skill set that is marketable. Those kids need to start at something more modest, network, gain skills and more slowly find their way into the higher paying positions. And I have no doubt that those with strong work ethics and are good workers will find something. Most of them have, the peers, of my older ones. It just takes a longer, and this economy does not help. Add some years to the process. Those who find additional certification programs or gain a marketablle skill will expedite the process.</p>

<p>My son’s one friend graduated with a poli sci major, barely a 2.0 gpa, and no skills per se. Took a job lifeguarding over the summer, and up graded it with to instructor level with an additional course. He was a strong swimmer, competed in college. Got some part time winter work at some program for handicapped kids swimming, and another at a nursing home. For about two years, he just took part time work of that sort until a rec director job opened up at a CP specialty camp where he had done some water therapy work. Now he works as manager for these sorts of services and makes a very nice living. Two kids, a wife who works part time and life is good. But it did take him about 5 years to get a living wage, whereas the engineers in his graduating class were working that next week after the grad ceremony. But he also has his hand in a whole lot of organizations from his job experiences, is very active in the community, and has been offered other positions in fund raising, alumni relations, athletic directorships, etc, etc, from all of the contacts he gained in those years when he was working a mass of part time jobs. It took time but his skills, degrees, interests did all come together, and in his case he is also doing a job he really loves and is wired and skilled at it. To have forced him to be an engineering or accounting major would have been a disservice, with a high probability of failure given that he barely got out of college in 4 years with a very general major. He makes as much as a lot of the engineers of his grad class, by the way, at this point in time. Fine for the engineers who are happy with what they are doing, but it would not have been a good path for him.</p>

<p>My friends’ dds who started in medical billing are now execs in some health insurance industries with software and modeling jobs and are making 6 figures. That ivy degree came in handy a few years after they took a number of not so hot jobs in billing and accounts at hospitals, health care centers, doctors offices and then find opportunites at insurance companies and now with Obama care on the horizon, those firms that are moving to deal with it. Yes, it took them longer than those who were nursing grads, who got their jobs right away, but now…the salaries and prestige have shifted as to who is making more and having more control and flexibility in jobs. </p>

<p>The ones who are having the most trouble, are as Blossom, notes are not flexible. You want to be an artist and refuse to do anything that is not being an artist? Well, you are going to find out very quickly where the phrase “poor, starving, artist” comes from. You want to learn about fundraising in the arts and take certification course in that or get some work in a children’s workshop or do some set design work in a number of venues and get your contacts in those fields, Well, now you are talking. You may not be doing exactly what you wanted to do, but you can be keeping those antennas up for opportunities more to your liking as you earn some money where the work is in these fields. My son got some great performance opportunites from contacts got when doing heavy duty manual set work for some shows. You get talking with someone there, make an impression, and he thinks about you when something comes up. Yes, it’s slower that way, and it’s a tough go, but you can feed yourself in the process and new opportunities can come your way that you’ve not imagined. "Oh the places you can go " as Dr Seuss has said.</p>

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<p>“Much of it is reaction against the constant refrain that majoring in anything except engineering, nursing or accounting is “useless,” “a waste,” etc. Liberal arts defenders are an embattled minority”</p>

<p>Interesting! That’s not the way it feels on parent’s CC to me! Does CC have some sort of “poll” option? It would have to have a non leading title, and allow for all the qualifiers.</p>

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<p>H was recently in the hospital for several days after a surgical procedure. He works in higher education, is always interested in where people are from, where they went to school, etc. Among the RNs, those finishing academic work toward RN, the PTs, the RT, even one MD, etc., almost all had degrees in the arts, two were dance, one flute, one piano, a couple were painters, etc. They had all gone back or continued their education in order to be trained in the medical field, but all remain active in the arts. One commented about the time she needed to spend practicing for an upcoming concert. Interesting!</p>

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<p>I want my kids to end up with a job that they enjoy after they graduate from college. </p>

<p>However, I have 3 sons and like it or not the Dad is not the parent that normally ends up staying home with the kids. We do have 1 neighbor Dad who is doing that but all the rest of us that stay home are Moms. I’m not saying that someone has to stay home. This is a life style choice . It’s just that if a family is going to choose to have a parent stay home it’s usually the Mom. The Dad then needs to make enough money to support the family.</p>

<p>My husband and I will help pay for college for all of our 3 sons. But we are going to make sure that they understand that we are NOT going to be able to support them financially for the rest of our lives:) </p>

<p>Our sons know that they need to have a plan on how they are going to get a job with whatever major they choose. For example my oldest who will be starting college in the fall really liked Biology… until I had him look up the job prospects.:frowning: His plan now is to major in Engineering and take some biology classes for “fun”.;)</p>

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<p>You know - different strokes for different folks. Some need the security of a degree that assures a set path. And those folks should go for it. Nothing wrong with that. </p>

<p>Past posts included lots of examples of folks majoring in one thing - and working in seemingly unrelated fields. Me too. If you recall I am a psych major - who shifted to computer programming - and finally to management consulting. What I didn’t mention is that my first job after college was a flight attendant - did that for 3 years and saw the world. Then I tried sales and hated it. Finally decided to spend 6 months “learning a trade” at a local school that provided computer programming certifications. My assembler teacher hired me from my group and gave me my start in the industry. Lots of psych majors work in the computer industry because it demands good interpersonal skills to communicate efffectively with end-users/clients. Lots of math majors too - since both are “logical”.</p>

<p>But…here is an example where my undergrad education complemented my “trade”. These days I come across computer engineers with limited interpersonal skills. Healthcare professionals with limited tech savvy. Flexibility is what caused the two to merge in my life - along with a little risk taking.</p>

<p>I also spent a good part of my early career doing program and project management. So I am a planner - but not at the expense of passing up potential opportunities. It’s a fine balance.</p>

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<p>Even if a student chooses a humanities/ music/ or art major, one can still prepare themselves for various career options upon graduation that can be aided by their choice of minors, grad school or working/ internship experience.</p>

<p>There are so many jobs out there and career options. To hear people speak at times on cc reminds me of how young children answer when asked what they want to be when they grow up. To them the options are very limited: doctor, fireman, policeman, nurse, teacher, veterinarian and ballet dancer.</p>

<p>Some adults sound just as limited when discussing majors and career paths. But there really are so many other jobs that people can find fulfilling and still earn a good living. It’s not all engineering and accounting!</p>

<p>Husband majored in public policy and management and ended up doing well working for real estate develeopers and a private equity fund. I majored in English and worked for years doing marketing communications for a cruise line and am currently a reading teacher (went back to grad school when children were born.)</p>

<p>Oldest D majored in vocal performance and minored in the business of Entertainment, Media and technology. She is currently at a top talent agency.</p>

<p>Youngest D is a fine arts major but will get her master’s in art education. </p>

<p>Regardless of your chosen field of study, you need to network, learn on the job, take advantage of internships and be willing to work hard and take advantage of opportunities as they arise. What you learn in college is certainly not what determines success over time.</p>

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<p>Do be aware that few students who go directly to college stick with their first major of choice. And the ones that change, usually do so FROM the STEM, Maths, PreMEd, Accounting rather then to them. It’s also difficult at a lot of schools to change to those majors, which is one reason for that. If you don’t start out as an engineering major, unless you took the intro courses that such majors did, switching to it and graduating on time is not likely without taking summer courses. </p>

<p>So your kid does two years of a major you think is just dandy, and he doesn’t want to continue, so you pull the financial plug? Yeah, there are some parents who do so , but most take it in stride, though, yes, they would prefer their kid stayed in a course of study that had better job opportunities.</p>

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<p>I think there is a difference between the student who has a particular passion and talent and can’t see him/herself doing anything else, and the student who may be just choosing a major in a more aimless or naive fashion. If theater, art, or philosophy is clearly where that person’s passion and talents lie, than I would have to support that. Otherwise you will just wind up with a person who feels he/she was never able to pursue their true interests and goals. (Of course they can still explore it anyway, just on their own dime.) I was an art major myself and my parents were fully supportive- I had worked hard at it and won numerous awards, plus I had limited talent in other areas, haha. However, I have to admit that I’m glad my son is majoring in Computer Science. He also has an interest in Global Affairs but was mature enough to realize that if he had an equal interest in both, he may as well pursue the degree that will open more doors career-wise.</p>

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<p>Just an interesting tidbit…</p>

<p>Twenty-five years ago my two best friends took very different paths. Both had strong interest in science and the arts. M decided to pursue art with her parents’ encouragement (and some of their cash) while R’s parents adamantly refused to send her for an art degree. They thought she should pursue bio/pre-med. M graduates and lands a LUCRATIVE job being a graphic designer for technical/medical texts. R graduates and cannot find work nor has interest in med school. Eventually she takes a job in research facility for low wages and is quite miserable. She lives at home for 8 years after college because she can’t support herself.</p>

<p>When we allow our children to follow their genuine passions, doors open. With two years to go for my D to attend college my husband and I tell her to follow her instincts. She will have to take out some loans, but our hard cash will also go along with her.</p>

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<p>I dated an ecology PhD student. He watched all his peers ending up with very low paying jobs. He found it very sad so he settled for a masters and the. Went on to get a masters in CS, so he could just do the ecology for fun as his hobby.</p>

<p>Last I heard he was making a good living with his CS degree.</p>

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<p>My D was just awarded her BM with Academic Honors from a top-tier conservatory as a Vocal Performance major. She will attend grad school for her Masters and then hopes to pick up a DMA while auditioning for Young Artist Programs. She has always been at the very top of her class academically and could have gone many routes, but followed her heart into a performance degree. I would never consider telling her to do otherwise. Her father cut her out of his life because he “didn’t approve” of her career choice and expected her to go into law or engineering. He is a software engineer and is miserable every day because he hates his job so it must be a case of “misery loves company”.
Children are “on loan” to us as parents, they are not our property. Something to remember…</p>