Would you pay for ANY major?

Parent Cafe
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<p>ivyparent, that’s the disconnect: I don’t think that anyone can pay for their kid to study something like MT or other majors where there’s a low chance of “success” without considering those non-financial rewards. And I’m not just thinking of performing arts, I’m also thinking of e.g. a young friend who paid the big bucks for Yale undergrad in the hopes of eventually entering academia in Classics. (looks like that one is going to work out :))</p>

<p>Does the kid have a shot? Can the family afford to pay for the kid to take the shot? Does the kid have a game plan for how to support themselves if they don’t win the lottery ticket? Then fine. Swing for the fences. Even if it means the family laid out a quarter million and Disney World is paying $10/hour.</p>

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<p>My cousin who was a good student in high school flunked out of college due to his inability to do well enough in engineering. He should have switched majors when the problem was apparent, but he did not, as there was a lot of pressure for him to stick with it. It didn’t pan out, so that was it for college for him. Sometimes that is what it comes down to with young people. They can get through college with some degree but not in the ones the parents had hoped, not the ones that make it easy for job finding. Sometimes you take what you can get. </p>

<p>My DH’s roommate came from a struggling family (and I know a number of others from my generation in this situation), and they broke the bank and their backs to send their brilliant son to a name college that was going to get him into medical school. That school had a yellow brick road straight to med school as far as they were concerned. Except, he did not do well enough to get accepted. It was a huge traumatic situation, and to this day he is estranged from his family, who still are not over all of this. From what I can see, this can happen in a lot of families, quite frequently in immigrant families. As words from a song say, “heroes often fail”, and our kids are not even hero material, they are just half baked at college age. Some of them, many of them, maybe most of them are not going to get through these carefully selected majors that will ensure jobs and $s. </p>

<p>I would be so thrilled if one of my kids wanted to be an engineer AND showed interest, ability in the field and the subjects involved, and if it looked like he could get through the program. But you think I’m going to tell the Greek Mythology major that he has to be an engineer? You really think that is going to fly most of the time. Umm, I don’t think so. And what if that really is something the kid wants to study, and is excited and interested about it. One of the speakers at my son’s commencement who was a classics major talked about the tracing of “The Odyssey” route ans work he had done in his field of study, and I just don’t think talking this kid into a STEM major would have done a whole lot of good. I’d feel great as a parent to have been able to give him, as my gift to him, parent to child, those years where he gained the knowledge he did, and developed a passion for something. All during a time when he was growing up. Maybe, maybe, maybe, he’ll be a lucky on to find work in this field, maybe not. But he’d never even have had the chance had he not put the time and study he did. I just don’t think telling someone at age 18 that he can’t give it a go in terms of pursing some interest is the way to do things. Who knows? He could be the one to get work and make a contribution in that field. </p>

<p>And for those who so want to make a go of it in the arts, performing and otherwise? They should not even give it a try? You really want to cut that opportunity off at that time? I can’t, won’t and didn’t. It does make for a rockier road, admittedly, but how much smoother it would be to push recalcitrant student through a course of study he does not want to do, isn’t going to be easy either. With all the psychological issues that arise in these early adult years, just getting them into adulthood, with a degree in hand with some independence and maturity achieved is an accomplishment. I know many a parent who has buried a child who did not make it through those turbulent years, or are battle scarred and adrift from them. At least with a degree in hand, the possibilities are there. Just a few more options possible.</p>

<p>A friend of mine has a DD who has been in and out of treatment centers for years for a number of things. The young woman started out at top ranked LAC, and there was every hope that she would get through there with flying colors and go to medical school. Things did not work out for her, and I think her parents would gladly have seen her graduate with any degree. She did finish up at a small private unknown school with a general Liberal Arts degree, and that was instrumental in a job she finally has snagged 12 years after graduating as sal from a rigorous prep school, where she will maybe be able to be independent. Without the BA, no, she would not have gotten the job, a nothing BA from a school hardly known but very expensive nonetheless. She will be pursuing a master’s and if she can get through the program, she’ll be in good shape in terms of job opportunities and pay. It’ will have taken a longer time than anyone would have anticipated, and not the path anyone wanted, but if t goes the way it looks it might, we are all grateful.</p>

<p>So, absolutely, let the kids know about those opportunities where they can make themselves more employable for more money. But to make it a sticking point when there are so many other things in life that are of such concern in making that transition to independence, it might be better to lay off and just understand it may take longer, a lot longer than you had hoped.</p>

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<p>Well, yes, there can be costs with retraining. I guess Im a bit spoiled here in NYS where the credit hours at the publics are very reasonable. But I was speaking in response to the scenario of folks in their forties still living off their parents because they chose the wrong college major.</p>

<p>I don’t see the investment as one in the financial return of the career but rather in the competence, confidence and maturity of the child. Those things can’t be quantified.</p>

<p>My H majored in business to the great approval of his father. It was an idiotic idea. He has no head for business. He created a high volume business that yielded significant profits. So far so good. But he couldn’t manage it and lost so much of our money that it still upsets me to think about it.</p>

<p>His dad, who was a hack, had a wedding photography studio and his mother got H thinking he was the next Ansel Adams. I had to step in and manage the business, and I take strong pictures. My study of literature gave me strong esthetic understanding and a good understanding of how people operate.</p>

<p>My H is devoted to the well-being of others. He should have done counseling or social work, but his family derided this. If he had had a job and private practice he would have been fine, especially because I have always worked.</p>

<p>We are pretending that folks with business, CS and finance degrees never fail, whereas this is far from the case.</p>

<p>My H’s business degree didnt really help him run a business nor did it teach him anything about anything. He did get through rather easily with decent grades.</p>

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<p>More’s the pity.</p>

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<p>It makes me feel a little ill to consider that a child’s future earnings are considered payback for what a parent spent on their education. I didn’t track the cost of diapers, clothes, food, daycare, dance or sports lessons when I raised my kids. I don’t expect them to ever pay me back for any of those things. What I paid towards their educations, from preschool to college I consider part of RAISING A CHILD, not something that is a cost/benefit equation.</p>

<p>Of course what one can afford is a factor in what you can spend towards college, but so it is with jobs and commuting, EC’s, public vs private schools, even the food you buy. </p>

<p>If my child is working and supporting him/herself and is happy with their lot in life, I have done my job. If a kid is working as a real-life Disney princess and living on her own, then her parents got the job done. It’s revolting to think that the kid has failed somehow because she’s not making enough to cover the cost of her education. </p>

<p>When a kid gets the all-mighty engineering/medical/business degree and then goes in an artsy direction are they then forced to pay it all back because they’re going to “internal rewards” and/or entertaining the masses? Probably not. Then why compare college payments with their jobs at all? Blech!</p>

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<p>This is an interesting point. Sometimes we do things because they add to the enjoyment of life, not because there is “payback.” My D took private tennis lessons for several years. It was / is a fun hobby for her, a way to get some exercise, enjoy some fresh air, give her a useful sport to play when she’s older and moves to a new town and needs to make some friends. I don’t feel hurt or that I didn’t get “payback” that she didn’t become a stand-out tennis player, win state, get a D1 tennis scholarship (like her cousins did) or turn pro.</p>

<p>That, ivyparent, is the tackiness of the “payback” concept.</p>

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<p>Well, of course not. Money, money, money, money. This is precisely what leads to the type of “I wanted to be an artist but my parents made me be a doctor / lawyer / engineer” that therapists’ offices are full of. Narrow-minded parents who don’t have a clue about opportunities outside a handful of very blunt fields.</p>

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<p>Yes, I agree. Both my kids have asserted that their colleges were essential to them in finding their interest in life and their life’s work. Should I complain because it might be a less lucrative profession?</p>

<p>Although I covered most of my college costs my family was very disappointed that I got a PhD in English instead of a JD. However, since I began teaching immediately I have never been unemployed since I made that decision, not did I have to pay a penny of tuition. I still love literature, and I enjoy teaching young people literature. I still like writing conference papers.</p>

<p>I doubt I could have sustained a law career while raising kids.</p>

<p>So although on paper a law degree has the potential to be much more lucrative, I’m not sure it would have actually worked out that way.</p>

<p>I’m fortunate that I didn’t need any financing from my parents so they couldn’t weigh in on this decision.</p>

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<p>I don’t see that dictating a major to your kids is an acceptable choice, however, I think it is completely irresponsible not to give advice and guidance to the consequences of choices that they make. It’s easy enough to look at specific college graduates salaries and country wide estimates based on career and major.</p>

<p>If your child is set upon a notoriously poorly paid career choice, for them (or their families) to spend a large amount of money on college is ridiculous. It can be easy for the wealthy, or those who are getting someone else to pay for it (taxpayers, school, or anyone else) to encourage their kids to just do whatever they darn well please. For the rest of us who live in the real world, it’s a little different.</p>

<p>I have sons. I expect them to be able to support their families. I’ve been poor for a good portion of my life and it stinks. There is nothing glamorous or admirable about it. Now there are some very challenging liberal arts majors that I would definitely consider desireable. If they had an extreme passion and talent for something, I’d support that also. But most kids don’t really have this idealistic dream and passion that people seem to think they do. They are often choosing based upon what seems more interesting…and avoiding majors like engineering because they are difficult, not because they have a serious passion for another subject.</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl,</p>

<p>It’s easy to say, “money money money” for some. But money, investment of money in a person’s endeavors for someone who doesn’t have much is no small matter.</p>

<p>Even if these parents are misguided or lack information, it really isn’t fair to characterize all of them as selfish or unfeeling. After all, they ARE the ones footing a HUGE bill.</p>

<p>Anyone is welcome to pursue any degree plan at any school that will accept them. All they have to do is be accepted and PAY.</p>

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<p>But it’s the payback piece that I don’t understand. What difference does it make to YOU what your kid makes, as long as he’s self-supporting? Are you expecting your kid to support you in your old age, hence that’s why you want him to be the doctor / lawyer / engineer versus the art historian?</p>

<p>I don’t think there’s anything wrong with pointing out that certain majors are less <em>immediately</em> employable than others. But unless you live under a rock, of course you know art history or classics majors who do quite well. It’s just that they don’t have the blunt, linear career path of “I studied computer science and voila, I now code for a living” or “I studied dental hygiene and voila, I now work as a dental hygienist.”</p>

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<p>I continue to be unimpressed by engineering as a major. Almost every single engineering major I knew started out at a good-paying job … and then plateaued, unless they showed evidence of broader management talent and thinking. It might be the golden ticket in the immediate first few years out, but long-term? I don’t see it as any kind of golden ticket at all.</p>

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<p>I am encouraging my son in art history because it’s the only yhing he’s found that he’s appreciably talented at so he can stand out of the crowd and feel confident enough to assert himself. He’s introverted and unassuming though emotionally open and friendly. Since he became involved he has had a summer job at a museum, gotten himself an internship at a museum and is in Europe now because his thesis advisor said he had to see particular paintings in person for his master’s thesis.</p>

<p>He was scared of all these things. If he doesn’t find a job the bolder, more confident person can do something else. He’s teaching his first class (aTA section) in September and his name is in the course catalog. Surely he’ll be able to parlay this into something.</p>

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<p>There is no need to take this discussion to extremes. I don’t see anything wrong with majoring in English/lit. These are fields that develop mind AND employable. No one says your child is suppose to become a millionaire fresh from college, but he/she must be able to support him/herself. I see nothing wrong with teaching, and don’t think this occupation is inferior to engineering or IB, or medicine. And personal abilities/preferences should not be ignored, but there are majors I would absolutely not pay for, especially since my kid is full pay.</p>

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<p>Newstudentmom: what would these fields that you absolutely would not pay for be?</p>

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<p>Lots of engineers do move into management. However, management is the type of job where there are fewer managers than non-managers, unless the organization is so top-heavy with management that it becomes inefficient (and a few layers of “excess” management get cut in layoffs). Not everyone can reach the C_O level of management in his/her career.</p>

<p>But also, lots of engineers are perfectly content to do engineering as a career, rather than move into management. Actually, does it really make sense to disdain those who choose not to move into management? Someone has to do the non-managerial work, after all.</p>

<p>The above apply to many other types of jobs, not just engineering.</p>

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<p>I’m not disdaining those who don’t move into management at all. People have to do what makes them happy. I’m just saying that I think there is some belief among the naive that an engineering degree is some kind of golden ticket to – if not riches – a really comfortable lifestyle – moreso than other majors. And that simply doesn’t describe the engineers I knew. They made more the first five years or so out of college, but that was about it – mid-career, they certainly weren’t making more than liberal arts majors, and often less.</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl, Lots of engineers could give a you know what about making the HUGE bucks. Sorry but your disdain IS apparent. It’s a tough major. Society would have a tough time if there weren’t kids pursuing engineering and science. We need engineers as we need theater arts majors, artists ,etc. (who I admire greatly-as I do engineers and scientists).</p>

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<p>Mid-career pay levels for engineers who do not move into management or become C_Os can support a very comfortable life, except perhaps by the standards of the “middle class who won’t get financial aid” (i.e. $230,000+ annual income) who cannot imagine making ends meet on anything less.</p>

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<p>"It’s easy to say, “money money money” for some. But money, investment of money in a person’s endeavors for someone who doesn’t have much is no small matter.</p>

<p>Even if these parents are misguided or lack information, it really isn’t fair to characterize all of them as selfish or unfeeling. After all, they ARE the ones footing a HUGE bill."</p>

<p>And there are some who have the vantage point of being wealthy, which explains the snobbery against certain majors that provide liveable incomes. If your kid will surely become a trust fund baby…no matter the occupation, no matter the cost of college, you have the luxury of thinking it doesn’t matter one bit. It doesn’t matter if your kid chooses a field that makes very little, or if they quit the job market entirely right after graduation. They will be set, taken care of, no matter what.</p>

<p>Most other people worry about their kids being able to afford health insurance, support their families, and not having to live from paycheck to paycheck or drowning in debt. It’s not the luxury of chasing a high income, but the ability of one’s kids to actually take care of themselves independently that many worry about. </p>

<p>This kind of thinking illustrates my point: “I continue to be unimpressed by engineering as a major. Almost every single engineering major I knew started out at a good-paying job … and then plateaued, unless they showed evidence of broader management talent and thinking. It might be the golden ticket in the immediate first few years out, but long-term? I don’t see it as any kind of golden ticket at all.”</p>

<p>Guess what, pizzagirl? For most people, the golden ticket IS a good paying job, where we can pay our bills and take care of our children well. It’s not huge sums of money.</p>