Would you pay for ANY major?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Visual and performing arts are probably not the kind of major that non-passionate “slackers” would choose, due to time consuming studio or performance requirements (comparable to or greater than lab time for science and engineering majors).</p>

<p>Humanities majors, other than perhaps English as a “default major” for those whose best high school subject was English, do not seem to be the type of majors that non-passionate “slackers” would choose either.</p>

<p>I would not be surprised if the non-passionate “slackers” tended to find their way into social studies majors (or business at less selective schools) in order to pass their courses and graduate without a high level of effort (though the students who are truly passionate about those subjects can get a lot more out of them).</p>

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<p>“Wow, busdriver. I never said money doesn’t matter”</p>

<p>That is what I derived from your posts. Apparently I was incorrect? Or perhaps you meant that money doesn’t matter all that much?</p>

<p>I haven’t read this entire thread, so I didn’t see where people are talking about “useless majors.” I don’t know if the defensiveness is against what people perceive is being said or what is actually said. My point is that students should be aware of what their career choices will do for them, and what jobs their major might support along the way. They should weigh the costs of what they choose, and not just blindly pick what feels good at the moment. I agree that, “a kid with drive can do well no matter what they study.”</p>

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<p>“What percentage of students are truly passionate about any major? 20%? For the rest, it’s what they might be able to tolerate 40+ hours a week. In that case, one might as well pick a highly-marketable major.”</p>

<p>Yep. I think very often, students just pick the major that seems halfway attractive and is the easiest one for them. So if you’re equally capable and equally interested in a few different subjects, why not pick the one that might actually offer you a job and a good paycheck when you graduate?</p>

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<p>I think that would depend on the school and the department. There are plenty of schools where you can turn in an incoherent or semi-coherent paper and get an A. Churning out pages of rambling prose to meet a page quota is not that hard for those who mastered the method in high school. Instead of reading the textbook, read the Spark Notes or Wikipedia summary. It’s a lot easier to fudge it when there are no single correct answers to determine. And too many professors are afraid of losing their right to continue teaching if they get bad reviews for actually expecting performance from their audience of finicky consumers.</p>

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<p>Absolutely, I think students should know where a major might take them, and where specific schools might help or hurt future prospects. In fact, my D’s 6-12 school has the kids considering these things from their first year there. I’m completely on board with that. My point, though, is that one kid’s best subject and the ability to major in something related to it, might be the idea of the 7th circle of hell for another. At 17, I feel they deserve the chance to have the primary say in which that is.</p>

<p>I’ve been just scraping by and I’ve lived quite well. Of course it’s easier with money. But a person can be happy without lots of it. There are moments in my own past I can count as examples of that. So can my H, who had some pretty hairy years. I suspect that an informed arts or humanities major is willing to work with the understanding that they may never be wealthy and may in fact struggle for a long time. I simply believe it is THEIR choice to do, as long as we parents make sure they know the facts. It’s not for us to force them into any mold.</p>

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<p>Maybe a slightly unfair leap, but let’s look again at the quote that raised my hackles:</p>

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<p>There are many many reasons someone could be unimpressed with a major. Maybe it doesn’t develop good critical thinking skills, or writing ability. Maybe its focus is too narrow. Maybe it really is a stinker when it comes to finding employment. Whatever. But your stated reason for being “unimpressed” is because the long-term earnings capability for most engineers ain’t all that. And that’s right after you’ve castigated another poster for being fixated on money money money. </p>

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<p>Most people regardless of major end up plateauing. They don’t end up in the 1%–or the 10%, for that matter. If that’s our measure of success, then the vast majority of us are failures. :)</p>

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<p>English as a default major? Really? I met a very successful doctor at a party recently. He was very impressed with my PhD in English (no, it’s not that impressive, I know.) He said he would have been an English major, but he could never get above a B in English so we went for medicine.</p>

<p>Hm. Probably worked out well for him.</p>

<p>But the writing and theory requirements of English are demanding. One must write well to be able to get through an English major as well as read really long novels and critical tracts. I’m thinking Derrida. </p>

<p>I teach English and have many dissatisfied customers. They can get through some of their courses with exams graded by computers, but I require extensive writing as do all my colleagues. I rarely award more than three A’s per class, and I don’t have a curve. There just aren’t that many good writers out there. Some classes have no A’s.</p>

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<p>It seems to me that some of the posters on the “wouldn’t pay” side of the line are creating a straw man version of a humanities student.</p>

<p>Yes, if your child chooses an impractical major simply because he or she has no idea of what to do and likes it marginally more than anything else, has no intention of entering a profession that has any relation to that major and/or is stubbornly committed to following their dream even once it becomes clear that it can’t pay, then you - or, more accurately, your kid - has a serious problem. </p>

<p>As many, many posters on this thread have reiterated, however, a lot of liberal arts kids are really passionate about what they do, have a financially feasible goal related to their chosen field, and have the sense to realize that a plan B might be necessary sometime well before they’re middle-aged people with families, debt, little money and no savings. </p>

<p>I also think, as I’ve mentioned before, that people aren’t sufficiently taking into account the opportunities out there for second chances, professionally, once you are in your twenties. Even plenty of kids with practical majors are going to wind up having to get advanced degrees to fulfill their professional goals. Many of those programs are also open to people who didn’t major in the subject. I currently have friends and relatives pursuing masters degrees in social work, speech/language pathology, communications, nursing, and public policy. You know what they have in common? None of them had undergrad degrees in their subject, having studied, respectively, psychology, sociology, history, psychology, and environmental engineering. Only two of the five had to take additional undergraduate level courses before being admitted to their programs; both of them paid for those courses themselves from money they made either before entering or by working part-time during their coursework. One of them delayed going back to school because she was making so much money as a bartender she found it hard to give up the job.</p>

<p>Honestly, if the major you chose in college was some irrevocable contract that committed you to either a life of virtuous poverty or wild economic success depending on what you chose, I’d agree that parents should really steer their kids toward the latter. But as this thread suggests, it isn’t remotely as clear-cut. A lot of jobs that were once slam-dunks aren’t anymore. Some people enter business or engineering and find that they aren’t very good at or interested in it. Some people who follow a long-shot dream succeed (although most people who pursue the majors we are discussing aren’t actually chasing such impractical dreams in the first place). And the many who don’t succeed in precisely the way they wanted still have ample opportunities to make a reasonable living by either using their “useless” degree for something other than what they initially intended or pursuing more education - with their own money - to change to a different field entirely.</p>

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<p>It certainly does appear that English is the most popular of the humanities majors, most of the others of which tend to be small (unless you count history as a humanities major as well as a social studies major).</p>

<p>That does not mean that the students who go into English as a default major because it was their best subject in high school necessarily do that well if they do not have that much passion for it.</p>

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<p>My kids are still young (20 and 23), but right now, neither are anticipating having kids, because they can’t seem to imagine doing what we did, to give their kids what they got. I readily admit we must have done something ‘’ wrong’’.</p>

<p>Strangely enough, while I think my father’s family had ‘‘good’’ SAT genes, only he and one other of his seven siblings had kids, and the sibling’s kids seemed quite ‘‘mad’’. They did not have kids. End of the line for my dad’s family. Mom’s family’s kid’s are thriving, but not in college.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry I misspoke and got the thread off track. What I was trying to convey had to do with the mistaken belief that engineering was automatically more marketable and well-paying, when in my experience that wasn’t true. </p>

<p>Communications is a major that I kind of laughed at when I was in school (being a more “serious” major myself - Econ and Math), but I know tons of communications majors who do quite well. </p>

<p>My theater and radio-TV-film major friends all do well for themselves, too. I have one friend who is a Tony-award-winning costume designer on Broadway; another runs a production company that makes reality TV shows; another is a professor of public health; another is a published author and playwright who also ran a yoga studio for years.
My linguistics-major friend is a political pundit, author and speaker who worked in the Clinton White House as a speechwriter.</p>

<p>I think it is limited thinking not to understand this. Sorry.</p>

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<p>Sure, I know a sociology major who picked it because it was the easiest major he could tolerate. I also know a sociology major who is extremely passionate about her field, and has a policymaking job lined up. </p>

<p>But put yourself in the shoes of the first student for a moment. What do his options look like? In this particular case that I’m thinking of, because of the way the school is set up, his choices are effectively sociology, geography and English literature. He is highly intelligent but has no great passion for any of the three. In this university, the most practical major available to him is Econ, a field he has shown neither aptitude nor passion for. Question: have him get a degree, in anything, while exploring passions and careers through ECs, which is what he’s doing, or refuse to fund the major? </p>

<p>We’ve talked a lot about making sure the kids have a reasonable picture of the money and job situation. I agree wholeheartedly. I don’t think anyone is saying, go $50k into debt for a Gender Studies degree. But assuming both options are financially feasible for the family and the kid has a minimum level of maturity to make this work for himself/herself - why restrict his/her choices?</p>

<p>In any case, it seems to me that business is a much more common default option than most of the social sciences.</p>

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<p>I certainly get that for a student who doesn’t have a particular driving passion, economics might be a better choice than art history. That describes my daughter. But her roommate has a passion for art history, so she might as well pursue it.</p>

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<p>Parent of “just finished freshman year of college” son here. I have read through many but not all of posts. </p>

<p>We struggle with this because our once deeply curious and intellectual son has picked up the vibe at school that he must have a straight career path and pick a major which leads directly to it. I have said a few times this spring to other parents that we must be the only parents arguing with their kid that they SHOULD be a classics major. Our view is that, if you do what you love, you will do well and have doors open for you, whether it is grad school or professional school (no one is kidding themselves that this young adult is headed for med school, sciences or engineering). And, more importantly, education is about learning to read, think, and write critically – those are the essential skills for being an adult in whatever workplace you find yourself over your adult life.</p>

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<p>Midwestmom, I applaud your son. If he were the one wanting to pursue the classics, I’d also applaud him, but I’d want him to also to keep in mind that jobs in that discipline are difficult to find, especially well paying ones But that he is already many steps ahead in that way of thinking, he can find ways to work the study and enjoyment of classics in his life without majoring in it. Going the other way around is more difficult because if the money isn’t there, the options are limited. I know many musicians, some danged good ones who are still continuing their music, and most of them love it as much as they ever did or more, as opposed to those who are pounding salt and trying to make a nickel out of the music and getting a penny at least. It can be a grim going when you do succeed at making a career out of your passion, but not the way you had planned, the money isn’t good, and your enjoyment becomes a duty, a job, an obligation. </p>

<p>My son has a friend who finally got cut from the minor leagues as he was pursing his dreams to make it big. After a year of depression , he’s finally found a way to truly enjoy his sport and his prowess in it without the stresses of barely making it. That he has found other work as his mainstay and can coach, teach, tutor in the sport, and play recreationally has rejuvenated his true love for the sport that had become like a cancer consuming him for years, as he was always on the tipping point for years. Just not good enough to “make it” but good enough that he might have the chance. It’s been a relief to him and all who love him that this gauntlet ended. </p>

<p>So your son will be able to continue to purse his passion, and maybe find that he can work in it but just not in the straight forward path you imagined. Like I said, I wouldn’t disparage anyone who gave that a go either, but that he is willing to try other ways, is commended too.</p>

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<p>I wholeheartedly am supporting my daughter’s choice to pursue a BFA in musical theatre. I did advise her to be prudent in her school choices. </p>

<p>I am fully aware of the job prospects that will await her upon graduation. There are many, many schools that will give her good training in MT, so she shouldn’t have to go into extreme debt to obtain her degree. We are being smart about finances now so that she can manage through the lean years that may come. I also believe that theatre training helps make a graduate more marketable for all sorts of jobs that aren’t directly related to theatre. </p>

<p>And for the record, I have many, many friends with BFAs in theatre and ALL of them are working in their fields of study, from actors (tv and stage and film), to teaching acting and dance, to managing high profile celebrity actors. </p>

<p>My daughter has been a performer from the womb and I couldn’t seeing her being content in life without being involved in the arts in some way or another.</p>

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<p>Let’s not put too fine of a point on it. It is very clear that there is a contingent of STEM-uber-alles posters on CC who really just can’t conceive of a whole host of jobs that are out there that are “good” jobs (not flipping burgers) that aren’t ones in which math / science / computer proficiency / talent is the most paramount – in which it’s about critical thinking and problem-solving skills combined with creativity in thought and approach. They pop up on every thread. They really couldn’t see why an advertising agency might want the art history major or the publishing house would want the classics major because they think of those things as “soft skills” and denigrate them. They think very literally and linearly – hence my comment about gee, the engineering major starts out at $10K more than the classics major, but so what … down the road it all works out in the end. There’s a real fear-basis to their thinking.</p>

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<p>What I find frustrating is the message to our kids – that college is for developing a specific, marketable skill, rather than developing one’s mind as a critical thinker. If you can think and write, you can do an enormous range of work. I was a humanities major, went to law school, and 25 years into my career, am still unusual among my peers in that I can speak and write effectively, without antagonizing my audience, and can listen to develop an effective solution to a problem. Being well-read, arguing points in class, listening to other arguments and responses – those are the skills developed in a well-rounded education. My son is someone who is naturally inclined to a career in academics, but sees that as de-valued by his peers who focus on getting into business school.</p>

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<p>My son was a MT major who has been pounding the pavement for work in his field. It’s been difficult for him. But he’s had that opportunity. When else would he have been able to do this the way he has? He’s young, few needs, and all wants in that direction. To have told him when he was all starry eyed, that this was not an option for exactly the reasons he is now living, would been putting out some lights that I just would not do as a parent. The fact of the matter, is that maybe he would have made it the way he had so dreamed, but would have never known. Nope. I let him spend 4 glorious years learning what he could in that field, and he has spent the next several years trying to make a living out of it. And just barely successful. </p>

<p>To be honest, I don’t think I had a snowball’s chance in hell of making him into an engineer, and I don’t know anyone who would think I would have. Or an accountant, or nurse or computer programmer.</p>

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<p>The idea that if I kid doesn’t have a passion he/she might as way do economics is lovely, but not every kid can get thought economist at every school. It involves advanced calculus which could be a challenge. One of S’s friends, who is now a successful entrepreneur, barely made it through the degree at Princeton even though he had the smarts and the stats to get himself into Princeton.</p>

<p>Many skills are particular to particular brains. It’s not a pretty picture when kids struggle with majors they’re not suited for. Up thread someone called this laziness, but I don’t think it is.</p>

<p>More elite schools are often brutal in these weed out functions as are many state schools thT have a course like organic chem with a steep curve.</p>

<p>Some “soft” majors are actually very difficult. My S’s grades in Ancient Greek were significantly lower than his grades in physics. Ancient Greek is a notoriously difficult course and very upper levels of Latin are challenging too.</p>

<p>For the record, I do think my S’s choice if a Classics major was a poor one. It seems ridiculous to me to damage one’s GPA for a Classics major for a discipline that is not much use in the workplace. By the time all this was clear to me, it was too late to intervene, and he would have been too stubborn to listen to me anyway.</p>

<p>However, it was a great learning experience, and he is now a more practical person. He graduated from an institution with tremendous cred in academia and is now in an Art History grad program earning only A-'s and A’s. he has already designed exhibit space for a local museum. I’m sure more commissions will come.</p>

<p>I don’t like that he made a foolish choice, but I think he was impractical and self-destructive in ways I couldn’t correct. Only experience could. So the experience did get him where he needs to be: serious about constructing a place for himself in the world that allows him to economically self-sufficient and somewhat fulfilled. He knows that the former is more important than the latter, and I have drummed that into his head.</p>

<p>As frustrating as this was for me, this was a lesson he couldn’t have learned until he was ready. It’s a shame he didn’t find art history sooner and graduate with a better GPA, but sometimes things don’t operate perfectly.</p>

<p>His choice of Art History is NOT because it’s easy. It’s because his hard wiring make him particularly suited for this. It turns out he has an eidetic memory and notices and memorized even tiny visual details. Since he spent his early life as a musician so this came as a big shock. OTOH my husband spent 25 years as a successful professional photographer so maybe we shouldn’t have been surprised.</p>

<p>Still, even mistakes have compensations. His Art History profs have been duly impressed with his knowledge of Classics. Early nineteenth century painting relies heavily on Classical themes.</p>

<p>He has already worked in two museums and is open to any work in his field including appraisal and auction house work. He has a major Art Critic behind him and I do think he will be able to build a career.</p>

<p>This hasn’t been the most fun ride, but he wouldn’t have finished college at all if I’d insisted he just do a STEM field and be done with it. Bad parenting on my part? Maybe. Or a very stubborn child.</p>

<p>My D was an American Studies major because she knew she wanted law school, and she was accepted into the school of her choice. Yay. But after a year she harrd law school and quit. Boo.</p>

<p>However, she is self-supporting in aPhD program. Her field is American legalhistory. Not only is she no longer accruing law school debt, she is paying it back from her fellowship, which is fully funded for four years.</p>

<p>Law sounds more practical, but many of her friends who have completed it either can’t find jobs or can’t find jobs that pay enough to pay their loans.</p>

<p>I’m not sure how this will all work out, but she is paying for herself for now and in a serious romantic relationship. Stability and providing for herself are very important to her.</p>

<p>These are not perfect scenarios for sure. Not linear. But here are two serious young people working toward independence and learning requisite and sometimes painful lessons along the way. I could not have forced them onto other paths. Trust me. I tried. However I am not sorry that I didn’t go so far as threatening to withhold financial support. I would have lost my relationships with them and not seen them further along on a path to full adulthood.</p>

<p>For those of you whose kids like or a willing to choose very practical paths that give you no agita, if the kids are happy, you really are lucky.</p>