<p>For those who know more than I do...according to the papers Dartmouth sent me, certain students can be exempt from writing 5. They said that they use the SAT (I think they've used the verbal section in the past but they might use the writing section for us) and AP scores. If I got a 680 writing/740 verbal and a 5 on AP Eng. Language do you think that I could get exempt?</p>
<p>aretsuya:</p>
<p>mailing today said that Writing exemptions will not be decided until this summer. Keep checking the '10 and Writing websites for further details.</p>
<p>I heard that if you perform voodoo rituals with chicken blood you won't have to take intro to writing.</p>
<p>hey gugliel, do you think endless meditation and the attainment of nirvana would do the trick? ^_^ (oh wait a second, if I attain nirvana I wouldn't be worried about earthly issues...oh well, I wouldn't attain nirvana anyway!)</p>
<p>Nirvana may be a good place to look for the exemption. I hadn't thought about it. But chicken blood + voodoo is the tried and true method, according to my Dimensions sponsor.</p>
<p>wow...so...I guess I'm going to have to take Writing 5...okay, for the people who already gone through this, which would you pick between Writing 2/3 and Writing 5 and why?</p>
<p>Some people pick (or have picked for them writing2/3) for a variety of reasons ex. if english is not your first language. </p>
<p>Writing is a big part of Dartmouth's curriculum so you will write many papers and some professors will be brutal when it comes to grading them. From this perspective there is no shame in building your writing skills because it is a good life long skill to have. </p>
<p>About Writing 2-3
This two-term writing course is designed to help Dartmouth's underprepared writers achieve excellence in writing through serious intellectual engagement and intensive academic support.</p>
<p>The primary goal of Writing 2-3 is for students to learn to write clearly and with confidence. By committing themselves to the rigorous process of writing, discussing, and rewriting their papers, students learn to craft clear and compelling academic arguments. In Writing 3, students engage in focused and sustained research. The course culminates in a research project of the student's design.</p>
<p>Writing 2-3 classrooms are diverse communities where students find opportunities for participation, mentorship, and support. Both in and out of the classroom, Writing 2-3 faculty are deeply committed to students and their concerns. For instance, student writing frequently serves as the basis for class discussion. Furthermore, instructors and tutors confer regularly with students in order to offer instruction that is both individual and personal.</p>
<p>Writing 2-3 is taken in lieu of Writing 5 and meets the college requirement for composition.</p>
<p>The best that we could tell last year, the SAT cut-offs change a little each year, so it is hard to predict unless a person had 800 verbal and all 5s on AP Eng. The college would prefer that everyone take English 5 but doesn't have the resources to reach everyone. Perhaps the cut-offs even change in order to produce enough exemptions to not overload the available staff. For example, they COULD look at the scores of the entering class, exempt those with 800s and 5s, then see how many they are over, etc.</p>
<p>There are 2 big advantages of exemption - it opens up one more course, and it allows the student to take the 2 term Hum course (which actually negates advantage #1, because you have to take both terms to get credit for Freshman Seminar). the disadvantage is that you don't get the writing instruction.</p>
<p>Unless you have a lot of experience doing research papers (citing, writing in apa or mla style, referencing, etc) and writing compelling academic arguments, it really cannot hurt you to take english 5. </p>
<p>As you get into some of your courses there is going to be an expectation that all of mechanics of college writing are going to be in place. I recently had a discussion with a parent of a 09 who was distraught because her son who was exempt from english 5 is taking 3 writing intensive classes this term received a C on a paper and has not gotten an A on any paper for any class that he is taking this term. </p>
<p>I talked about this to my D who said that "some of those professors in his major are really brutal and there is no such thing as an easy A in a course that is heavily reading and writing intensive and it has been her experience that some professors are not generous giving out A's on papers."</p>
<p>If you look at the median grades of classes that are more writing intensive you will not see many classes where the median grades are A's (most likely B+'s)</p>
<p>update to post #2 -- the letter actually says exemption decisions will not be made until "late July"....</p>
<p>while two terms of writing instruction (ie writing 5, then seminar) is probably very helpful, i would say that if you get the exemption, definitely take your seminar in the fall. the seminar courses also offer a great deal of writing help and are essentially geared toward that most of all. also, if you have the opportunity, do take the humanities 1&2 sequence--these classes are the only ones at dartmouth that offer a fairly comprehensive survey of the western canon (the "classics"), you will be in the company of kids who remind you that many of the brightest kids in the country are at dartmouth, and by the 2-term discussion nature of the course, you may make some close friends, as i did.</p>
<p>As others said, the cutoffs change every year. I think the school wants to put about 1/3 of the class into seminars in the fall, 1/3 in the winter and 1/3 in the spring, so they work the cutoffs around that. I believe cutoffs last year were something like over 780 on the verbal SAT OR over 720/740 on the verbal SAT combined with a 5 on either AP English exam.</p>
<p>you do not want to take English 2/3 if you do not have to. If you score lower than a certain cutoff I think they make you take an online exam to see if you need English 2/3 rather than English 5.</p>
<p>Impression I got from D was that based on her friends who were taking English 5 she was REALLY, REALLY, REALLY happy not to have had to take it (and she actually considered taking it even though she was exempt), and to have gone straight into the writing seminar. according to her you get much more writing help in the seminar than in English 5.</p>
<p>DartMom, how is the seminar different from writing 5?</p>
<p>First year seminar is required by all freshmen. Writing depends on placement. If you are placed in writing 5 you will have the followign schedule:</p>
<p>fall- writing 5, winter- first year seminar </p>
<p>or </p>
<p>winter- writing 5, spring -first year seminar</p>
<p>Writing 5 is similar to a high school English class -- you discuss 'how to write.' Seminars usually discuss the actual material more, and also focus on writing research papers. Much of the class' value also depends on what department you take it in -- you can take Writing 5 and seminars even in Computer Science and Math.</p>
<p>I never took Writing 5 because I was placed into a seminar fall term. I DO NOT RECOMMEND skipping Writing 5. I struggled in my seminar, and continual to struggle with writing papers. I got very high AP scores on both the Language and Literature tests and very high verbal and writing SAT scores. Basically, I understand the rules of grammar and syntax and all that. Most of my profs say that my papers are written very well. </p>
<p>However, I have a lot of trouble with forming clear arguments and theses. Also, I didn't do many research papers in high school so this was also new to me. I think I would have benefited from some extra guidance in Writing 5. Students were REALLY smart in my class (one kid went to Bush's former high school) and most of them didn't need help with forming arguments so my prof didn't really cover that.</p>
<p>If you are planning to major in anything writing-intensive, like History, English, Classics, or maybe even Government, and are not completely comfortable with forming arguments, please consider taking Writing 5.</p>
<p>Jen,</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your experience and giving some very insightful advice about writing at Dartmouth and pointing out that it is not about high AP scores, or good grades in english, unless you have had extensive experience writing research papers in your high school college writing and high school english are 2 totally different things. </p>
<p>You also make a valid poing that students who are considering writing intensive majors like Govt and Econ, having a good foundation in writing is beneficial as your papers are going to carry a lot of weight.</p>
<p>Congrats on finishing your classes and good luck on your finals.</p>
<p>Thanks sybbie! :-)</p>