<p>
[quote]
It's been a while since I was in college...do most professors leave it to their TAs to grade the final exams? Or does it depend on your major?
[/quote]
I think it depends on the school, the prof, the exam, and the "level" of the TA. Some TAs at some schools are undergraduates, while others are ABDs. Some tests are all multiple choice, while others involve mostly essays. Some classes are very small, while others are very large. Etc.</p>
<p>To the OP, I've been following every post on this thread, because it is so troubling.</p>
<p>The more I think about it, with the new information that there was a TA involved in the middle and exams were left out unprotected in a hall, possibly in violation of college policy, along with any efforts you can make to back up the fact that you studied for the exam (witnesses, dated classnotes, old planners to help you remember when you studied...etc), plus the fact that you only got a 73 on the disputed exam after all that...
leads me to believe that this is a big misunderstanding that won't end up harming you. No guarantees, and I tend to counsel very optimistically. But I feel a word of reassurance here might help you with your summer, which you mentioned once above. </p>
<p>I feel that something went amiss between the prof and the TA, somehow, including a misguided idea by the TA to protect his professor by pointing the finger down the foodchain at you, if he thought he or the prof was going to be dishonored.</p>
<p>Continue to prepare, but I feel somewhat better about this. I won't feel right til you post that it is all put to bed.</p>
<p>But in the meantime, try to stay strong and salvage some summertime feelings, too. It's hard to compartmentalize when these crises come suddenly upon your landscape. Actually, this happens to adults, some crisis at work or with a relative's health, and meanwhile we just try to keep going day-by-day as the important decision dates approach. I'm really sorry that this will dampen your summer, but hopefully not spoil it entirely.</p>
<p>I have a gut feelign that this will resolve in your favor. There are too many variables here, what with the TA and the unprotected exams, for a fair-minded dean to land on you. It might boil down to whether or not the TA and prof close ranks to make a story against you, or the prof turns on his TA in which case you're totally irrelevant and the victim here.</p>
<p>Usually at the beginning of a course there are rules somewhere in the initial course paperwork that advise what constitutes cheating in that class. Make sure you look through your stuff to make sure you understand everything that is said in these pages. </p>
<p>My apology if this has been mentoned already.</p>
<p>Good grief! Are professors today just so freakin' busy they can't stick around for a day or two to personally give blue books to students who wish to see them or discuss their grades? There would be no need to leave them in a pile in a unsecure location if they would just get over themselves! As a parent, who pays tuition, I feel like I have a right to expect a little personal attention to my kid's needs on occasion. </p>
<p>Sheesh...I hope this works out for you coolnerd.</p>
<p>ldmom:</p>
<p>While leaving bluebooks out in piles in hallways is against confidentiality rules, profs should not be expected to hang around waiting in case some student may show up to get his or her bluebooks Students don't all descend on the prof's office at a certain time on a certain day. In fact, some never do retrieve their bluebooks at all (as is the case of the OP)l, which is why profs are supposed to hang on to bluebooks for a year--in case, weeks or months later, a student decides to query a grade. Others leave for home as soon as exams are over and before they are graded and released. But those who do show up may decide to drop by any time over the next couple of weeks; it would be unrealistic to expect profs not to budge from their offices fevery day during that time which is often a very busy time at colleges because of end of the year business, including graduation.</p>
<p>I don't know. You could always leave blue books with department secretaries. I really don't see any need for them to be left in the halls.</p>
<p>Actually, some departments offer dozens of courses per semester, and the exams would have to be kept in separate boxes. Most departmental offices do not have the space to keep so many boxes, and each for one year. Although colleges try to abide by FERPA, they don't always make provisions for adhering to them. So the onus is on profs to keep copies of the exams. But I would not expect profs to be available for a long period of time for the sake of handing back exams. However, if there is a query concerning a grade (and I doubt it could be made on the spot), the prof should be available to discuss the student's performance.</p>
<p>What I think is reasonable is for a professor to designate a certain time when they are available to show or give a student their blue book and answer questions about their grades. I'm not suggesting they stick around in perpetuity....notice I said "a day or two", NOT a "long period of time" or over "a couple of weeks". Please re-read my post for clarity marite.</p>
<p>No excuses...sorry. Availability is, and should be, a part of the job. We've already conceded actual teaching and grading...I'm not conceding availability.</p>
<p>The profs are indeed available at the end of term, especially at the end of year, since, as I wrote, they are very busy with end of term/year meetings.<br>
And most, in my experience, continue to have office hours for a week or so after exams and are available by email. In fact, my S recently got a global email from a prof about needing to regrade some exams that were administered in mid-May because a mistake was made in computing scores. I suspect the mistake was brought to the prof's attention by a student who queried his or her grade.
The OP, for one, did not pick up her blue books.If she did not know where to pick them up, she could easily have emailed the prof for directions. But apparently she did not.</p>
<p>I don;t know what you mean about conceding teaching. My S's TFs have not taught anything. They've led discussion sections. As for grading, a TF grading 20 exams is going to make fewer mistakes than a prof grading 100+, non?</p>
<p>that he took the exam, altered his answers and put it back and then questioned the grade, is that it?</p>
<p>
[quote]
My S's TFs have not taught anything. They've led discussion sections.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Since TF means "teaching fellow," it's rather sad if they've never managed to actually teach anything during the discussion sections they led.</p>
<p>I attended a liberal arts college where there were no TF's or TA's at all, but I still feel that my classmates and I taught each other valuable things when we were working together in informal study groups. I would certainly hope that marite's son's TF's taught their discussion sections something.</p>
<p>What I assume marite meant to say was that the lectures were all conducted by the professors. But it's worth noting that sometimes the informal teaching that goes on in discussion sections and office hours conducted by TF's can be even more valuable than lectures.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As for grading, a TF grading 20 exams is going to make fewer mistakes than a prof grading 100+, non?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That depends on the nature of the mistakes. Probably the TF would make fewer clerical errors in computer and transcription in grading 20 exams, but the TF might well make more conceptual mistakes than the professor would make in grading 100 exams. There might be subtle nuances of the question, judgmental issues that the professor would be able to handle more correctly than the TF, due to his (hopefully) stronger background in the subject.</p>
<p>Actually, if there are 100 exams and five TF's, it's probably more satisfactory if the exam has five essay questions and each TF grades one question for all 100 exams, with each TF getting careful and detailed guidance from the professor on the nuances of his or her particular question. This leads to greater consistency in grading.</p>
<p>And, ideally, the questions can be divided up so that each essay topic goes to the TF most knowledgeable about that area, or more complicated essay topics go to the most senior and experienced TF's, etc.</p>
<p>In the end, I still think the professor has the ultimate responsibility for assigning grades--and ought, at the very least, to do some quality control as part of the guidance process. One possibility is that the professor could read a random sample of each TF's grading work, when the TF is partway through his batch, then give guidance on those examples. (If necessary, the TF might need to re-read the other essays he has already graded in the light of the prof's comments on the random sample, as well as taking those comments into account in grading the rest of the batch.)</p>
<p>Agree with all the above. My S has found his sections very helpful both because of the discussions among fellow students and the clarifications of lectures by TFs. But they don't teach new materials.</p>
<p>Profs have their own policies regarding grading practices. Some do random checks of exams and papers and insist that TFs hold meetings where they can compare preliminary grades to ensure consistency. Some profs attend these meetings, others don't. Some ask individual TFs to grade the same questions across all exams and others ask TFs to grade entire individual exams. I don't know that there exist policies or even guidelines as to how to organize grading. Whatever profs choose to do, I agree that the prof bears the ultimate responsibility for accurate and consistent grading.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The OP, for one, did not pick up her blue books.If she did not know where to pick them up, she could easily have emailed the prof for directions. But apparently she did not.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are you even supposed to pick up a final exam? I don't think I've ever done that, but not because I just didn't, but because we aren't allowed to keep them. I've always been told that prof's have to keep the finals for one year in case of a grade dispute.</p>
<p>I suppose it depends on the school. S has been sent emails telling where to pick up blue books (he's one of legions who have not done so). However, his profs are also told to keep blue books for one year in case of a grade dispute. I suppose it is assumed that the students who pick up their blue books then go on to dispute grades do not alter the exams.
The whole point of leaving exams in hallways--however much of a breach of confidentiality this represents-- is so that students can pick them up at their convenience. Those who want the exams mailed to them are told to provide a self-stamped and self-addressed envelope.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>I suppose it is assumed that the students who pick up their blue books then go on to dispute grades do not alter the exams.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Obviously an assumption that will perhaps need to be re-thought, unless copies of blue books are made...</p>
<p>Obviously, your S's college must not have come upon this way of cheating much, if at all. But if a school like Yale has had problems...</p>
<p>LMNOP:</p>
<p>My S's college is the same as your D's.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Retention of Exam Booklets and Course Records</p>
<p>Most instructors return exam booklets, papers, and other academic work to the students enrolled in their courses. Work that is not returned to students must be kept in a safe, accessible location on campus for at least one year after the end of a course. By law, students have the right to review all materials submitted to a course, and for a reasonable charge, may have copies of any originals not returned to them. Course heads should be sure to collect from section leaders and tutors any course assignments that have not been returned to students for appropriate storage. Faculty who are leaving the FAS or who will be on leave and away from the University should make appropriate arrangements for maintaining the availability of students’ work.
[/quote]
<p>Addendum to above post:</p>
<p>The reason for returning papers and exams is that students can benefit from comments made on said papers and exams, not just to verify that the grade is appropriate and correct.
One could argue that profs should make copies of all exams and papers. I shudder at the idea of doing so for Justice (800+ students) or any of the most popular courses, each of which have 300+ students, and most of which seem to involve multiple bluebooks and papers.</p>
<p>A good mailroom guy should have no problem copying (or scanning) a bluebook in a minute or two. If the exam has 4 bluebooks, he can do it in 10 minutes or less, no problem. If it costs $20 per hour to hire him, it will cost less than $5 per student to copy the bluebooks. That's negligible compared to the $5000 or so in tuition that the class is costing.</p>
<p>If I were the president of Ivy U, I would have all exams scanned immediately after the exam is over. It would eliminate the sort of cheating accusations described in this thread and would protect all students against the possibility that their exam will be lost due to fire or flood.</p>
<p>Heck, I bet it wouldn't be too hard to design a bluebook that can be easily pulled apart, fed through a machine fed scanner, and re-assembled.</p>
<p>^^
Since it is likely that students would not be hired to do the job for reason of confidentiality and because they, too would either have exams or disappear after the exam, a mailroom guy would have to be hired, possibly with benefits. So the cost would be more than $20 per hour. After all, there are two semesters and many courses offered per semester; plus there are response papers, midterms and finals, weekly problem sets, lab reports, and so on. </p>
<p>The above scenario does not take into account tying up multiple copying machines for hours along with the additional cost of paper, staples ( colleges are trying to go green!), etc... as well as storage space. Since a very high proportion of students do not pick up their exams, each prof would be required to store twice as many bluebooks and papers as s/he does now. The $5000 per class would probably rise very significantly.</p>
<p>A much better scenario is for comments to be made in ink on each exam so that if a student altered the content, the comments would no longer look appropriate. Conscientious profs and TFs do so already anyway (which may be why some colleges are less concerned with post-hoc alteration of exams?)</p>
<p>
[quote]
mailroom guy would have to be hired, possibly with benefits. So the cost would be more than $20 per hour.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I doubt it. His actual pay would be $8 or $9 per hour. I more than doubled it to take into account benefits, management, depreciation, etc.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The above scenario does not take into account tying up multiple copying machines for hours along with the additional cost of paper, staples ( colleges are trying to go green!), etc...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, it does. In reality, it would most likely be outsourced. There are plenty of companies that specialize in picking up documents, copying them, and bringing them back. </p>
<p>I doubt that Ivy U would end up paying more than 10 cents per page. That's what the local Kinko's would charge me for such a service, and I'm not in the position to negotiate a volume discount.</p>
<p>Even with midterms and quizzes, I doubt that any student produces more than 100 pages of exam pages during a semester. That's ten bucks.</p>
<p>
[quote]
as well as storage space
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If storage space is a concern, just scan instead of copying. My portable hard drive (which is not state of the art) is 6 inches by 2 inches by 1/2 inch and has space for 60 gigabytes of data. That's enough to hold over 100 thousand scanned pages. 10-20 such hard drives could easily fit in a desk drawer and could easily contain all the scanned bluebooks for an entire class at Cornell for a year. </p>
<p>And I'm sure there is a much cheaper and more efficient way to store the data.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The $5000 per class would probably rise very significantly.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Unlikely. Even if it cost 25 cents per page to scan and store and each student wrote 200 pages per semester, that's still only $50. In reality, each student writes far less than 200 exam pages and it would cost far less than 25 cents to scan and store each page.</p>
<p>I guess $5 to $10 per student at most.</p>