<p>icy9ff8,
You hit the nail on the head for the major loopholes that I saw in the WSJ "study." Their work really had very little value. But I will say that I was surprised at the LOW acceptance rate at these eight colleges. For what are purportedly the top private high schools in the country, I would've expected higher rates of admission. However, I suspect that when you consider a larger universe of top colleges, they do just fine.</p>
<p>Hawkette: To continue with my example of St. Paul's School: SPS sent 6 or 7 of the class of 2007 to Amherst, which was excluded from the WSJ survey, and sent only one student to Williams which was included in the WSJ survey. Fourteen (14) students from the bottom half (non-cum laude graduates) of the class of 2007 went to 7 of the 8 Ivies, the eighth being Harvard. The 5 or 6 SPS grads who matriculated at Harvard all graduated with at least a cum laude designation. In fairness to the WSJ, one of the education editors did express interest in my study about 6 weeks ago, but I did not yet prepare any article beyond "methodology used" and three comprehensive charts, and will submit those to the WSJ within a few days. I am concerned though that the lead WSJ author, with whom I spoke a few months ago, may have an agenda other than ease of verification which prompted her to select these eight schools.</p>
<p>I agree with Northstarmom. This is EA not ED period.</p>
<p>I agree with memake. It is wrong for Georgetown to base the admissions decision on the likelihood of a student accepting an offer of admission. If they want they can make their early application process ED instead of EA. But of course they know they wouldn't get strong applicants that way at all.</p>
<p>I have no sympathy for Georgetown or the guidance office in this.</p>
<p>With all the attention focussed on how difficult it is to get admission into these top universities, I think people do not realize how desperately colleges, even the top colleges, are trying to compete with other colleges in recruiting the best applicants and trying to boost their own reputations. </p>
<p>All this superscoring of SATs, taking the highest SATs, Early action/decision, and trying to 'cut deals' with high school guidance officers is driven by their wish to look as good as possible in the USNWR and other rankings.</p>
<p>To Tyler09- Sympathy for the guidance counselor, yes a little, and girl's fault- just a tiny bit. Hopefully the guidance department learnt a lesson and will focus in the future on providing (gasp) GUIDANCE to students rather than obsess about gaming the system.</p>
<p>really you have no sympathy for the guidance consoler who lent the girl her credibility to benefit he college application process?</p>
<p>You think the girl bares no fault in this incidence?</p>
<p>It doesn't say WHO Jessica promised she would attend Georgetown. No one should be holding an EA applicant to ED standards.</p>
<p>Hawkette: To further address your post above, it is interesting to note that over 10% of the most recent graduating class from Groton matriculated at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland, and, if I remember correctly, two to St. Andrew's in Scotland. Neither school is rated in any study with which I am familiar. The hardest part in rating schools' college placement is getting the college matriculation info. Schools such as Andover and Exeter are quite open about the process, Taft is the most secretive, and many of the others require a great deal of persistance and patience. If you can obtain the most recent years college matriculation information for schools like Deerfield Academy, Andover, Groton and St. Paul's School, I think that your reaction might be different. I was absolutely stunned by their college placement successes. Deerfield is also very open and forthcoming with info. Exeter was great and gave me as much time and info. as I wanted. As an aside, much of the boarding school marketing effort is now geared toward the Asian sector from Hong Kong to South Korea and the largest schools, such as Exeter, can accommodate the most internationals; so, from that perspective, I can understand the WSJ gearing their survey toward favoring Exeter.</p>
<p>I have looked at a few of the schools you mentioned, including Deerfield and I agree that they have a strong record. I don't believe that that record is accurately portrayed by the WSJ "study" as the acceptance rate to the universe of most selective colleges (eg, Top 20 nat'l unis and top 10-15 LACs) is likely materially higher than the article communicated. Like you, I wonder at the motivations of the author. Unfortunately I conclude that this study does not IMO give a very accurate portrayal of the quantity, quality, and depth of college placement going on from these high schools.</p>
<p>It is not Georgetown that I have sympathy for - those who make the point that it is EA and not ED are correct - and perhaps the girl in question does not owe Georgetown anything. But the article seems to imply that the girl had made promises to her GC, and as Duckpondparent points out, by age 17 a person should have some understanding that when you give your word, it means something. I'm guessing Yale was a big reach for her and she wanted to have something sure in the bag and was willing to say whatever necessary to get it. Surely at 17 she should have been capable of imaging a "what if I do get into Yale" scenario and realized that she would prefer that to Georgetown. If she shouldn't be held responsible for her promises, then we shouldn't hold any accepted ED candidate responsible for changing their mind, either. The way I read the article, it seems like she knew the GC was going to bat for her - I don't think the GC would have done this without discussing with the student what the expectations would be if she got accepted. The girl should not have made promises that she could not keep.</p>
<p>I am having trouble seeing where it said she made a promise to her school. I think a more likely scenario is that the author doesnt truly understand the diff between ea and ed. </p>
<p>ED is controversial, and a lot of schools shifted to EA to solve some of the problems. It would be completely inappropriate for any highschool to force students into a ED agreement that the college does not expect or even desire. If the school does indeed do that, then I think the lack of ethics are on the part of the school.</p>
<p>GCs should go to bat for promising students.</p>
<p>I'm on the girl's side. Applicants don't set up the rules of the admissions game, the colleges do. Who in their right mind would NOT say college X is their first choice, when asked by college X? That question should not be asked, as it is done only to help colleges win the yield/cross-admit game. GC's should not be asking this of students, either. The idea that it is more important that the hs's reputation not be damaged by a teenager changing her mind (ha!) than the student making the right decision about one of the most important decisions in her life is ridiculous.</p>
<p>The GC could have GUIDED the girl by talking to her about all her other schools, and COUNSELED her that Yale was a better fit for her, and that Yale was within reach.</p>
<p>But instead, the GC was too busy"going to bat" a.k.a, trying to game the system by "winking and nodding" with various college admissions offices in a well-intentioned but UNETHICAL attempt to circumvent the process by which colleges decide which applicants to admit. </p>
<p>Does nobody else here see the dishonesty of the guidance counsellor and the college admissions office? </p>
<p>I actually think this is a good thing that happened. There should be more such incidents so that colleges and guidance offices stop this type of manipulative behavior.</p>
<p>Here is a point that seems to be missed:
I know this isn't exact or precise, but </p>
<p>-Isn't it pretty safe to say that someone who can get into Yale, could get into Georgetown? I know there are exceptions, but I think that is a pretty safe assumption.</p>
<p>So, I doubt her "promising to go there" made any difference at all. And if she can get into Yale, I doubt the gc had to pull strings and argue her head off to get this kid into Georgetown.</p>
<p>Also, what is this prestige crap? Is Yale that much more prestigious than Georgetown? Wouldn't someone go to Yale because they think its a better school than Georgetown, over whether it is more prestigious?</p>
<p>I posted this elsewhere, but if you used the 8 Ivy's plus Stanford and MIT, the US boarding school rankings (and SAT's) for last year were:</p>
<p>1 St. Paul's School 34% 2049
2 Deerfield Academy 32% 2040
2 Milton Academy 32% 1360
4 Groton School 31% 2100
5 Middlesex School 30% 2010
6 Phillips Andover Academy 29% 2008
6 Phillips Exeter Academy 29% 2073
8 Noble and Greenough School 28% 1355
9 St. Albans School DC 25%
10 Lawrenceville School 22% 2020
11 Hotchkiss School 20% 2015
12 Choate Rosemary Hall 19% 1332
13 Hockaday School 18% 1990
14 Peddie School 17%
15 St. Andrew's School 16% 1305
15 Belmont Hill School 16% 1340
17 Blair Academy 12% 1230
17 Taft School 12% 1293
19 St. George's School 11% 1291
19 Indian Springs School 11% 1305
21 Cate School 10% 1310
21 Concord Academy 10% 2023
23 Cranbrook Schools 8-10% 1921
23 Georgetown Preparatory School 8-10%
23 Loomis Chaffee School 8-10%
23 Northfield Mount Hermon School 8-10% 1202
23 Miss Porter's School 8-10% 1865
23 Emma Willard School 8-10% 1910
23 Episcopal High School 8-10%
30 Kent School 5-8%
30 Webb Schools 5-8% 1300
30 Woodberry Forest School 5-8% 1310
30 Culver Academies 5-8%</p>
<p>This avoids the WSJ conundrum of picking Pomona and Swathmore and leaving off Yale and Princeton (etc). But the real bottom line is that there are many great boarding schools, day schools, public schools and colleges.</p>