<p>^We’re very lucky in that we have 4 state universities within driving distance of our house. It is the room and board costs that can really crank up the cost of college, so if you can and will live at home, you can get your university degree without going into crazy amounts of debt. Of course, you will need dependable transportation.</p>
<p>If you don’t live in a place with good universities within driving range and you have to pay R&B costs, then college can get VERY expensive.</p>
<p>I agree with you ellemenope. Room and board adds enormously to the overall cost. I’ve seen estimates of anywhere from $7,500 - $12,000 per year for r & b, depending on the school and area of the country. Now, obviously, the kid would have to eat if they were at home too, but not even my 17 year old son can go through $10K a year in groceries!</p>
<p>There was another article in our local paper last week about a young couple struggling with huge student debt. The woman was the first in her family to go to college, attended a local private and has over $88,000 in loans (degree in liberal arts) and a low paying job. She said she always thought if she went to college she would be successful. Her husband (no college degree) was making a good salary in IT, but was laid off. Students taking on that much debt is crazy, they don’t grasp the financial consequences. Our state mandates education in health, it seems a financial course should be as important as the health course.</p>
<p>The article also notes that they paid 12,000 for their wedding last spring, and financial planners suggest that they sell one of their cars, and their house to move to something more affordable. It notes the sense of entitlement, that young people expect to have everything they want right now.</p>
<p>I just looked this up: As of July 1, 2008, the nation’s 363 metro areas contained 254.2 million people — 83.6 percent of the total population. </p>
<p>So most kids live in an area where there is a community college and public 4-year school within a reasonable commute of their home. For them, even if they borrow the full cost of tuition, fees, and books, there is no reason to take on more than about $30,000 in debt. (Yes, I know that some areas are more expensive, but surely $60,000 isn’t necessary.)</p>
<p>I wouldn’t recommend The Stones as personal role models, but they were right about this:</p>
<p>“You can’t always get what you want
But if you try sometimes well you just might find
You get what you need”</p>
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<p>I don’t disagree with you, Delamar, but try suggesting this in the suburban DC area where I live and you and you had better know how to duck. Seriously, people are offended if you suggest this. It was not like this in the small midwest town where I grew up.</p>
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<p>I agree with you in all cases except the trades, which themselves usually take some sort of education on top of HS. Most college graduates will be very unlikely to match what those on the trades make, even 20 years into there careers. The added benefit of the trades is you work for 20-25 years and you are done, you then can retire with a full pension. </p>
<p>As for job supply, tradesmen at least in NYC are highly unlikely to go without work, the worse the economy gets the more jobs they get.</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments, member & FallGirl. The general point that I was trying to make is that, despite all the hand wringing in the media & on CC, most kids can get a bachelor’s degree without them or their families going into an enormous amount of debt. And for most kids and families, going $30,000 into debt for a BA/BS is worth it.</p>
<p>Believe me, I’m well aware that some kids (and their parents) feel that going the 2-year community college route and then commuting 2 years to the in-state public to get their degree is a lesser experience. But I think that a kid or family committing to large amounts of debt based on the preferences of an 18-year old would be a pretty scary experience. </p>
<p>For the record, I see a huge amount of difference between living below your means to finance a kid’s dream school and borrowing heavily to pay for that same school. My husband and I have done the former – as you may have guessed by my point-of-view. Living-below your means involves making a calculation based on your known assets and income as to how to spend your money; taking on debt means taking a gamble on what your assets and income will be in the future and committing to spending them before you have them.</p>
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<p>Completely agree with the above. When weighing in the balance a kid’s getting a BS but with a suboptimal college experience vs. the same kid getting a BS with the “typical college experience” but with quality of life severely impacted by future crushing debt loads–I would hope suboptimal experience would win a lot more times than not.</p>
<p>I’m not against taking loans out for college–but loan amounts have to be reasonable.</p>
<p>I went the suboptimal route for my undergrad degree–I didn’t know it was suboptimal. Who knew back then?!! H and I did live below our means, hit some luck, and haven’t had any employment or health disasters, so are able to provide undergrad educations for our kids without their going into debt. They know, from talking with their friends, what a great gift that is.</p>
<p>[Student</a> Loans: Default Rates Are Soaring - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027600001437467.html]Student”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027600001437467.html)</p>
<p>interesting article on defaults with an equally interesting comment section</p>
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<p>This is just the kind of situation that young people need to run away from–over $30K in debt, the vast majority of which are private loans. No, she is not being punished for having gone to school. She is suffering the consequences of having made a really dumb financial mistake.</p>
<p>Interesting article - yes. Hopefully prospective college students read it. I don’t know if it does much for those already in debt problems.</p>
<p>Debt truly is a trap.</p>
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<p>Exactly the same here. But I know so many people will will pay for an expensive private college for a child who made little effort in high school and doesn’t qualify to attend our top in state schools. Many of these people will complain about the debt, but will simply not consider sending their children to CC.</p>
<p>Yes, it is still possible to get a college degree with under $30,000 in debt,
but what troubles me is the economic difference between when I went to
school and todays students. As a slightly above average student from a
lower middle class family I was able to choose between a very good private
and my state flagship and graduate without huge hardship to my parents and
without debt. My kids from a similar economic background are much stronger
students yet their opportunities have shrunk. The state flagship is no longer
affordable, and the privates are either too difficult to get into or unaffordable
even with significant debt. It troubles me that my kids who have, no doubt,
worked a lot harder then me and achieved significantly more, do not have the
same level of opportunity. This isn’t a recent development but a trend that
has taken 20 years or so to get to this point. What’s next?</p>
<p>speedo, I do not know what is next. I have similar experiences to yours. My DH and I are from middle class families though. Although we are better educated than our parents were, our standard of living is not nearly as good as it was for us as children. My parents sent me to a private U. that our kids could not get into, but if they could, I know that I could not afford to send them there. My H went to an OOS public that we also could not afford today, although our children could gain admission there. My H and I went to grad schools and our debt was really very doable. We finished undergrad without any debt and our parents did not even complete forms for FA (lol, I never even heard of FA until I met somone a school receiving aid). My parents and DH’s parents paid full freight in both cases, and my H comes from a large family (his parents were able to pay full freight for all of their children. Half went to a four year right away, and the other half did go to two year schools first.).</p>
<p>If current trends continue, staying home, commuting and working will be the
only option for most kids. We managed by “hook and by crook” to get our
kids off to a residential college, but it was tenuous, still is, and only with
significant loans, which we all still have to pay off. But I suspect 5 years
from now, that scenario will no longer be possible. I get the sense that somehow
something has gone wrong.</p>
<p>Something has gone wrong long ago and unless something changes college will be only for the rich. Even our CC costs 5k per semester plus 400-500 per semsester for books (some are used at that price btw), and then where we live the kiddo requires a car which means buying a used car that works and paying for auto insurance. I am not even talking about pocket money, gas money, etc. Is this affordable to a poor, or lower middle class family, or even a middle class family with 3 or more children?</p>
<p>I think there will be, maybe starting now or at least soon, less inflation going forward in private school costs. People won’t be able to pay without loans, loans will become less available/affordable, and prices will flatten. It won’t happen overnight though. State schools are dependent on government budgets, and those aren’t going to improve soon – so who knows the future there?</p>
<p>That said, there will always be families that are willing to make choices that maximize their ability to pay for the kids’ education – having fewer children, having both parents working, working jobs that take away from family time but pay well, living in an area with a high cost of living but also high salaries.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, as long as the Staffords are structured with a $1000 raise for the
first three years, it’s pretty much an automatic $1000 plus coa rise each year
at most privates. This year even with the economic meltdown most privates
were in the 3 to 5% zone. What most privates are doing is making themselves
as attractive as possible for higher paying customers - fancy dorms, amenities,
merit aid etc. I doubt most parents will be willing to make the kind of sacrifices
suggested in post 37, simply because these days a college education really
doesn’t guarantee the graduate much advantage in the marketplace. For
many LACs it may be time to change or die.</p>
<p>speedo -</p>
<p>I can only speak anecdotally, but my husband and I have done all of those things I mentioned in #37 to make sure our sons have lots of options for their education. (OK, to be entirely truthful, we probably wouldn’t have had more than 2 kids regardless.) And there are many families in our area that have done the same.</p>
<p>And it simply isn’t true that a college education doesn’t give graduates an advantage. People with college degrees, on average, make more money and are less likely to be unemployed than those without a degree. There are certainly recent college graduates who are struggling now, but in the long run most will be better off for having the degree. (I’m not talking about kids who went into huge debt to get the degree; that is a whole different thing. And I personally think that you need to think in terms of future career when you are selecting your major, but that is a debate for another thread.)</p>
<p>But I do agree that some LACs are going to have to make changes in order to survive.</p>
<p>We do keep trying to caution kids posting on CC NOT to go into CRUSHING debt but it’s tough when there are lenders out there (who seem to have very little, if any regulation) that can keep telling the kids to go ahead & borrow whatever amount they want.</p>
<p>I cringe when I read about kids & families scraping together what they can to get the kid thru the 1st year of their dream U & wonder what thought process they are using to figure out how to pay for years 2-4+; the math is simple but somehow there are many out there who just want to have their financial plan, “HOPE,” which really doesn’t cut it vs. the reality of crushing debt.</p>
<p>When we were growing up, our folks had all of us start at in-state flagship U. Most of my sibs got their degree there but were able to go elsewhere (OOS publics & privates) for grad school. Our folks helped us pay off grad school debt so we basically all started our careers debt-free.</p>
<p>We are grateful our CC is still quite reasonable. I believe we paid about $1000/semester for 3 semester for D to attend + whatever books cost, which was also pretty managable; summer school was flagship U was under $1000 for 2 terms of foreign language. She lived at home & commuted but it worked for us & allowed us to let her apply where she wanted to transfer WITHOUT crushing debt. S also applied & matriculated where he was given substantial merit aid has always kept this in mind; he should be graduating on time and likely will have some interesting options to consider with his EE degree.</p>