WSJ: College Loans Hit Upper Middle Class Hardest

Paying for College
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Declining state funding hardly explains tuition increases at private universities. In fact, it doesn’t explain rising tuition at public universities either:
[Does</a> Tuition Go Up Because State Funding Goes Down?](<a href=“http://www.mindingthecampus.com/forum/2012/04/does_tuition_go_up_because_state_funding_goes_down.html]Does”>http://www.mindingthecampus.com/forum/2012/04/does_tuition_go_up_because_state_funding_goes_down.html)

Do you have any evidence to support this? If not, can you explain your thought process in a little more detail?

Aren’t the students who are admitted to “top 100+ schools” also a minority? What might be the overlap between those two groups?</p>

<p>It’s not my intention to rehash the tired old argument over the value of prestige schools. What I’d like to ask is: what is driving the cost of college? Tuition increases have occurred everywhere from the Ivy League to community college. This problem is not unique to “prestige” schools or to for-profits.</p>

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<p>In Texas our cc has a course equivalency section. So I know what Baylor, aTm, UT etc will and will not accept. I’ve had lots of friends whose children have gotten the same as an AA ( now I don’ know whether they got the designation or not but they had 60 hours) and they were accepted a freshman and qualified for nice scholarships. We plan to do the same. But then again, we aren’t trying for Ivies… I think they are overrated and overpriced. My husband got his degree at Baylor and was at the top of his med school class over many people that came from Harvard, Yale, etc. He was so intimidated at first until he realized that the education he received there was just as good as the one they received.</p>

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<p>And not every school will accept those credits. In fact, most won’t do so. You have to check carefully with each potential college and each potential major. Also, some colleges don’t care when the courses were taken and will treat your kid as a transfer.</p>

<p>Been there, done that, learned some hard lessons . . .</p>

<p>It’s not that it can’t work, it’s a matter of doing really good, specific research and making sure that you know what your student’s exact situation will be.</p>

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Baylor is a fantastic school. I’m from NYC and know a couple of people who have graduated from Baylor and they are stellar employees.</p>

<p>It’s great that your state is so forthcoming the information that you need and is so accommodating. Unfortunately, that’s not the norm. But, hey, the college search process is about research and planning, anyway, isn’t it?</p>

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<p>That’s nonsense, Phillyfed. Community colleges can offer a high-quality lower-division education and prepare students for success in their junior and senior years - and beyond. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to justify their smug sense of superiority.</p>

<p>See, community college alumni can make snide remarks too. :)</p>

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  1. Ridiculously easy access to credit.</p>

<p>If you can borrow whatever you need, with no consequences to the lender if you can’t pay it back, there is no reason to hold down prices or not loan a ton of money.</p>

<p>2) If you build it, they will come.</p>

<p>School are in a building arms race to have the fanciest, most modern and up-to-date dorms, labs, sports facilities, rec facilities, etc., in order to compete for students.</p>

<p>3) School presidents now see themselves as equivalent to CEOs at large companies.</p>

<p>And they want to be paid like it. So, naturally, the people under them feel the same way. Lots of empire-building going on, leading to bloated, top-heavy, and overpaid administration.</p>

<p>4) Got to keep up with the Jones’es.</p>

<p>If you are priced cheaper than your competition, you are deemed inferior to your competition. So every mediocre private school price marches in lock-step with the big boys who can charge whatever they want.</p>

<p>IMO anyway.</p>

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<p>Polarscribe, i went to a CC back in the day, so i am speaking from 1 st hand experience…the average student is below average, and a significant don’t even finish the two year program…glad to hear you made it, but there are few real success stories</p>

<p>fwiw, i graduated 2nd in the class witha 3.95 average, and honestly, i am not THAT smart, but smart enought to realize my fellow students were NOT motivated</p>

<p>There is a reason CC’s are called 13 th grade, am i smug enough for you ;)</p>

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<p>Have a friend bemoaning the cost of college, and how it isn’t worth it.
He says such and such college is not worth it…BUT his kids are in private HS at 19k per year, so i ask, is THAT worth it? And then i ask why is he driving a Mercedes 550, is THAT worth it? Apparently he hasn’t saved much, so it is easier to say it isn’t worth it, when you can’t actually afford it anyway…Looks very noble</p>

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<p>A lot of the reason why this hits certain income demographics harder is because of the expectations that are there. In my DH’s family, there are certain members for which there are NO thoughts, expectations or plans for college except on a part time basis at the community college. So no one is shocked, outraged or upset that there is no money for college. There were no such expectations. Many of those kids went to school where the expectations were not there either, so no one missed anything. It’s a big deal thing to go to school full time even locally and to go away to the state U is something big time.</p>

<p>Not so, when you move to certain neighborhhods and families. Everyone or nearly everyone goes to college and the majority go to school at least initally full time, and more than half go away to college. And that’s what feeds the expectations of the students and families. Throw in those myths of all those scholarships out there for college if the kid’s a good student, and that no one doesn’t go for lack of funds, and that one can borrow from the government at favorable terms, and that this kid and that is getting a full ride, and you get some crazy expectations. ALso these counselors too often tell kids and families not to worry about standard test scores and other things that are truly things that are in the picture for families with certain expectations and plans. </p>

<p>So when the time comes to make the decision for these families who have often fulfilled close to every material desire in terms of what their kids want and what they want, they are hit with a quarter million dollar price tag for 4 years. Yeah. That is a killer. And the choice is for the child to go to a school with little name recognition, state options, commute, all often available at affordable prices vs going to recognized name, slelep away school at a huge cost.</p>

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<p>UMass Amherst offers a way for CC students to be guaranteed admission to UMass–the Community College Connection, [UMass</a> Amherst: Community College Connection](<a href=“MassTransfer : UMass Amherst”>MassTransfer : UMass Amherst). Perhaps a similar program exists in other states.</p>

<p>By the way, I am an Ivy League grad, would be considered to have an upper middle class income, have 529’s for both kids, have 529’s from grandparents for both kids, and there is still no way I could send my kids to my alma mater (Brown) without incurring considerable debt, which at my age I am unwilling to do, or putting considerable debt on my kids, which I am also unwilling to do. My son will graduate debt-free from UMass Amherst, with hopefully something left over in his 529 for grad school, and my HS14 daughter will be looking at state schools or privates which offer merit aid.</p>

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<p>No, community college success stories aren’t “few and far between.” Quite simply nonsense.</p>

<p>One-third of all University of California graduates attended a California community college. If those outcomes aren’t “success stories,” your definition of “success” is profoundly warped.</p>

<p>The public investment in community colleges has created a low-cost, high-return model of higher education that promotes open access and reduces spending by students and taxpayers alike.</p>

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<p>My family is in this category. We have 3 kids and we had been saving in their 529’s since they were all toddlers. We got hit at one point when the stock market went down and we lost a considerable amount of money in their 529’s. So we started saving all over again-in a fixed acct. </p>

<p>We live in California and both hubby and I are native to our city. Our families can’t help financially. Hubby has a good job but the cost of living is high. We both drive older used cars; we don’t spend excessively, we don’t travel, we didn’t remodel our kitchen, and we’ve been squirreling away as much money as possible-which has been our downfall-the savings accounts for the kids are big assets on the FAFSA. </p>

<p>When my husband and I both went to our undergraduate colleges, we both went to instate schools (h=UC, wife=Cal State) and could earn enough money through part-time jobs (tour guides, waitressing). Grad schools were not that much more and we both paid for these through jobs. (Hubby’s Stanford grad. education was paid by working at the zoo.)</p>

<p>We could have never imagined or predicted what the universities’ fees would rise to. Our middle daughter (4.4 gpa) will be at her UC in Sept. Our EFC is $23K each, for both she and her older sister. We’re URM, but because of our income, middle daughter only qualified for $307 “scholarship” and loans. That’s the cost of her chem book. She was a finalist for Hispanic Scholarship Fund, but we recently got a letter saying that she was not chosen. I suspect our “income” hurt us. Middle daughter is working as a hotel housekeeper to save money for her fall expenses. Eldest is working (14 hr days) as an EE intern to pay her housing costs. They know now how hard it is to earn a dollar.</p>

<p>The middle daughter’s classmate who lives down the street in a bigger house, newer mercedes and lexus SUVs, two children, designer clothes and a lower gpa, not URM, was given several scholarships, which are funding most of her education at the same school.</p>

<p>I am really frustrated by it all, and we’re definitely trying to find more money to deposit into son’s 529 account. (2014 grad). Additionally, we used to donate money to our alma maters’ along with matching funds from our employers. Not anymore, no money; also, our companies have also limited what they will match. (We’re not thrilled that the colleges were using our dollars to fully fund students from out of state and out of the country). </p>

<p>So when we get on CC and we see the “entitled” attitudes of some of the students, and especially international kids who want full rides because they feel they are owed these funds, it makes us angry. One kid actually had the gall to say that because Americans make more money overall than India, we needed to provide more opportunities for them because we don’t understand what being “poor” is. That could be true in some circles, but you’re talking a to girl from the barrio whose family relied on the the church’s monthly food pantry to eat. (Father-Texan Army vet who only knew how to share-crop) </p>

<p>My URM kids worked their butts off: studying for their AP tests, their EC’s, violin lessons, and Sports!!! Result: a hefty tuition bill! NADA, ni un pedazo de pan!! Very frustrating!</p>

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<p>I’m surprised to hear this. It was my understanding that the UC’s were using out-of-state (and international) students as a lucrative source of revenue.</p>

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<p>Every 100k in a savings account raises your EFC by 5600 if my math is correct (unless the savings are in your child’s name).</p>

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<p>Aunt Bea - we get a double whammy her in CA. Frankly a dollar in CA. doesn’t go nearly as far as a dollar in many/most other states. Just yesterday I spoke with the FA office of one of the private schools DS is interested in. I asked specifically if geographic location was considered when looking at the FAFSA/CSS-PROFILE numbers - um…nope! To make matters even sillier…our equity is in a business, that business produces our income. The CSS-PROFILE considers this equity available for college tuition. However, if loans are taken against the business, income goes down… </p>

<p>I do wonder how long those that can afford full pay will keep voluntarily subsidizing more and more partial/no-pay students, especially if the current system excludes most of the middle/upper middle class.</p>

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<p>Virginia’s Community College system has an incredible articulation agreement with the state universities (including UVA, William and Mary, and Virginia Tech) as well as many of the private schools in the state. For example, if a student earns an associate’s degree with a 3.4 GPA at the local community college, they are GUARANTEED admission to UVA. More info can be found at <a href=“https://www.vawizard.org/vccs/TransferGAA.action[/url]”>https://www.vawizard.org/vccs/TransferGAA.action&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>On top of that, the community college is free for many kids in certain localities (unfortunately not ours) [VWCC</a> :: CCAP :: FAQs](<a href=“http://www.virginiawestern.edu/ccap/faq.php]VWCC”>http://www.virginiawestern.edu/ccap/faq.php)</p>

<p>Many local kids take advantage of this.</p>

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<p>Boomers are shifting college costs to their kids thanks to poor planning and excessive spending.</p>

<p>There are a few groups to thank for sky-rocketing tuition costs:

  • The federal government, for giving out unlimited loans.
  • Colleges, for being profit-making machines first and foremost, rather than educators.
  • Boomers and Boomer politics. Boomers only look out for Boomers and their policies screw the next generation. For example, while many support Social Security, they are often adamantly opposed to Obamacare. </p>

<p>Boomers had it easy and will die leaving America in shambles. America is on its way to becoming a 2nd tier nation soon.</p>

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<p>Dodgersmom-From what I understand, previously donated monies were pumped into the university endowment accounts which funded the student scholarships. Now, they’re finally asking OOS and international kids to pay up, but I think it’s a little to latel!! Our state taxes have funded the universities for years and to have them exclude our residents who can’t get in because the uni’s are looking for OOS money, is unfair. </p>

<p>Dietz, completely agree on all of your points! We get sucker-punched in California. Yes, it’s called the sunshine tax, but the native californians that I know of aren’t conspicuous consumers and didn’t get caught up in this financial real estate mess. All of my long term neighbors still have their homes with lots of built up equity. (Real Estate agents target our neighborhood and come knocking daily asking when we’re moving. I finally put a sign on the door.)</p>

<p>So, we, upper middle class folks, get to fully pay for our children’s educations, I don’t mind paying for each of my children, I just think the system is grossly unfair and just wish there were a “REAL” in-state discount.</p>

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<p>Yeah, a few of my friends are coming to my school instead of going to UC Berkeley/UCLA because it’s too expensive for them. Even for two years.</p>

<p>Even though I’m going to a state school, it’s still going to be 20K per year for me in loans. Dad only recently got an OK job and my EFC is way high (15K).</p>

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<p>dietz199 - I feel your pain. We’re in the same boat here in CT. So many people don’t understand that while $100,000 income may be 85th percentile in the nation, most of those that earn that are in states like California and Connecticut where the cost of living is high. Median income for families with 2 or 3 kids in our states are above $100,000 which means we’re nowhere near 85th percentile. Asking us to come up with $20,000 is significant. I understand it’s much easier for us than for someone with income of only $50,000, but they’re not asked to come up with much of anything. Even after the housing bubble burst, it still costs over $200,000 to buy a starter home, and the fair-market value of a 2BR apartment in much of the state is over $1,000 a month. Families earning $50,000 are eligible to participate in “affordable housing” programs, because they are often spending more than 30% of their income on housing. The payment on 30-year mortgage of that $200,000 house is $900 a month, assuming they put 25% down. </p>

<p>Calling us upper-middle class doesn’t quite fit. Calling us rich because we earn more than many in “poorer” states is like telling someone living at the poverty level in one of those state they are in fact rich, because they make more than a Chinese peasant. Everything is relative.</p>

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<p>Caldud, $20K in loans is a reasonable amount after four years of college.
NOT for ONE year.</p>