x-post from chances, about out of military.

Student Lounge Veterans
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<p>I am looking to go to school at an Ivy League or near Ivy League school for undergraduate study in Physics / Astronomy. (Astrophysics / Astrobiology)</p>

<p>I can honestly admit, that even though I tested well in high school, and was in AP classes at the start, I dropped out of most of them because well, I was lazy. I hate admitting it, but its true, I was dead lazy. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. I joined the military in hopes of getting college money to help me push towards college as well as give me some time to decide what I wanted to do with my life. I am now about to get out of the military and start working on my college life. I kept an average 3.0 in high school, while scoring in the upper 10% for math and 20% for other categories. I went to the best school in my country / region, though my finishing position out of my class was only in the top 250 (I think 248) out of a 898 graduating class. It wasnt until I spent time in the military and learned some discipline that I realized how important my education was, and horribly wrong it was of me to slack off.</p>

<p>I have hopes of getting into a top school and I want to know that with my past education not being perfect, but still above average, and my military experience, are my chances increased when applying for an Ivy or near Ivy league school?</p>

<p>I know that some of these Schools have signed agreements with the military as apart of the yellow ribbon program that expects military veterans into the school. I believe, but could be wrong, that they picked a number and are required by this program to admit up to that many veterans who apply for the designated programs.</p>

<p>Since I am already out of high school with little extracurricular activity under my belt, what things can I do to help increase my chances when applying for these schools? I am doomed to failure from my negligence in high school? I have plans to do extensive volunteer work when I get out in order to develop a record of public service. Will things like this help? (i.e. Soup Kitchen, Red Cross assistance at hospitals, etc.)</p>

<p>Additional Information:
My military career only brought me to the rank of SPC (Specialist, or E-4) but the jobs and positions I held were of high / extreme responsibility. I ran and operated a Satellite providing communications for a base while Deployed, and back in the states, I spent time as the head armorer for our unit. Both jobs required me to have a secret clearance and I had to sign for / keep track of Millions of dollars worth of equipment. I have a few military awards under my belt as well (or should I say on my chest) to include an ARCOM and 2AAMs (not amazing, but still good)</p>

<p>I am currently 21 years old but will be 22 by the time I put in any applications.</p>

<p>I have been complimented many times on the presentation and skillful interview processes that I have been through.</p>

<p>Sorry if this was too long. Thanks for reading and replying.</p>

<p>TL;DR (Too Long; Don't Read)
Will my military experience increase my chances of getting into an Ivy League / Top tier school?</p>

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<p>

^You just described about 99% of veterans. You’re absolutely not alone.</p>

<p>

There are two parts to this:

  1. Unfortunately, Ivys are infamous for not being veteran friendly. For example, last year Stanford (technically not Ivy, I know, but it’s up there) had a full 10 military veterans in their entire student body of nearly 15,000 - barely 1/2 of 1/10th of a percent. In my research, the most friendly Ivy is Columbia, namely due to their School of General Studies which is specifically designed for non-traditional applicants. Ivys tend to be like this because they seem to place more weight on what exactly you did/accomplished/how you grew from your military experience rather than taking the fact as itself, that you’re a veteran. Which brings me to point 2.
  2. I think veterans do have a competitive advantage vs traditional applicants (especially if they can utilize the P911GIB, since that’s almost guaranteed up-front $ in the school’s pocket), but many veterans fail to utilize that advantage properly. Here is what I mean: a veteran may sell his credentials and positions on the college application essays much like how you did in your post here, but it’s important not to leave out how those experiences or accomplishments are either a) important to the school (i.e. how does having someone with those experiences and accomplishments benefit the student body) or b) were important to your personal development. That’s where I think the real sell with veterans’ experiences are - most traditional high school applicants will not have simply had the opportunity to have an experience that had such a dramatic effect on their lives and their outlook (again, much how you describe realizing how important education is and how you shouldn’t have slacked off, and hence won’t in the future). The connection that I think it’s important for an applying veteran to make is how your military experiences translate as those defining “life experiences”, and how the result of that is important to have represented in the student body.</p>

<p>Otherwise, inherently, there is no comparable competitive advantage for being a veteran unless you’ve also completed classes while on AD.</p>

<p>

The Yellow Ribbon Program (YRP) has nothing to do with the application process and almost everything to do with the Financial Aid process. YRP comes into effect once you’ve been accepted (or while you’re an applicant, depending on application deadlines and such). It’s not an admissions agreement between the VA and the school, but a financial agreement. In a nutshell this is how it works: you apply to a school that your GI Bill does not cover the whole cost for out of the $17,500/yr (typically these are private or Out-of-State). School with a YRP agreement will pay a prespecified amount (varies by school and program), and with the agreement, the VA will “kick in” the same amount. For example, School A costs $22,500 tuition and fees and have a YR agrrement with the VA for $2,500. Your GI Bill covers $17,500 off the top which leaves a remainder of $5,000 that you will need to pay. However, the school’s YR agreement specifies them to pay $2,500 towards that $5,000 remainder to have the VA also pay another $2,500. Together they make up the $5,000 more you needed to pay and you can attend the school without paying any tuition or fees. However, sometimes even the YRP does not offset the total Cost of Attendance (COA), or even all tuition and fees, at some schools (because they’re so expensive and have small YRP amounts).
You can use this web page to view a list of all institutions of higher learning that have YR agreements with the VA: [Welcome</a> to the GI Bill Web Site | The Home for All Educational Benefits Provided by the Department of Veterans Affairs](<a href=“http://gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/yrp/yrp_list_2011.htm]Welcome”>http://gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/yrp/yrp_list_2011.htm)
One last caveat with the YRP is that some schools only have a limited amount of “seats” for the program and the VA does not require a uniform way for the school to select which veterans obtain the YR seats. So, if the school has 20 veterans eligible for and have applied to the YRP for any given year, but the school only has 10 seats alloted for the program then 10 of those veterans will end up having to cover remaining costs out of pocket or through loans. Again, right now there is no uniform way that the VA requires for the school to follow on selecting which students eligible for the YRP actually receive it, but typically it is a first-come, first-served basis.</p>

<p>

Personally, I think this goes in two parts as well. 1. Most schools should understand the commitment a service member makes while on AD which leaves barely any time on some weekends to do your personal errands let alone volunteer the little bit of time you have left. So I don’t think as much weight is put on ECs with veterans as they may be with traditional HS students who (mostly) are only occupied with school during prime hours of 7-3, which leaves a while lot of time after to do other things valuable of their time. I think this generally extends to all non-traditional students including those who have families and full-time jobs to support those families before they started school. 2. Because you’re non-traditional (and this isn’t a requirement by any means), I would suggest looking for internships/experiences that pertain to your intended major (Astrophysics/biology). Those may be hard to come by in such a specific field, however. Overall, there shouldn’t be too much weight drawn to your ECs so long as you’re a recently separated veteran.</p>

<p>

^I would list all of this in the application under your ECs and in the notes/comments section write the corresponding awards you were awarded during the time you held each billet.</p>

<p>If you have no immediate family (no wife or kids) and are willing to go to any state, then I would definitely suggest applying to Columbia School of GS (if NY isn’t your home state already) and Dartmouth. Those are the two most veteran friendly I have researched. Of course you can apply to all the others as you wish. You should also consider non-Ivy privates.</p>

<p>Hope this cleared some things up for you.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the feed back, I have done a small amount of research with GS Columbia and one of my favorite Authors / teachers happens to be there. So even though its not very likely, it would be a great thing to work and study under someone I admire and learn from them in a classroom setting. I will look into Dart as well and see what info I can get about them. Thanks for providing such a long and vivid feedback, filled with great info. I will not let it go to waste.</p>

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<p>

My favorite Economist is also a professor at Columbia: Joseph Stiglitz.</p>

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<p>Very cool, one of my favorites is Brian Greene, whose a Physicist who works their.</p>