<p>I know Yale's engineering programs blow; they are humanities-oriented and probably has one of the weaker engineering majors in the Ivies. </p>
<p>I was wondering if it is worth it to apply there as an engineering major...</p>
<p>Please keep in mind job opportunities & salary, selectivity, and prestige</p>
<p>I would not recommend applying to Yale if you definitely want to pursue engineering. There are many other schools, even other Ivies (such as Cornell) which offer much stronger engineering departments. However, if you're somewhat undecided about your major, Yale's overall undergraduate education is one of the best.</p>
<p>Yale engineering does NOT "blow." They have a very solid and well-respected program, that is improving all the time. True, other schools (MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, Cornell) have phenomenal engineering programs, so in a RELATIVE sense, Yale might be PERCEIVED as weaker... but in an ABSOLUTE sense, you will still get an outstanding engineering education in a decidedly liberal arts environment. </p>
<p>On a side note: just because a program is not in the top 20 does NOT mean the program sucks... there are a few thousand universities and colleges in the US, only a few hundred of which are considered competitive.</p>
<p>gee, im not trying to start a flame war. FYI, I dont work on stats.</p>
<p>But I am just wondering if Yale will come up big after graduating. i.e. getting jobs to large firms with big pay cheques</p>
<p>Yale probably isn't worth the $40K if you want to be an engineer. You can get the same jobs from a good state school and there are bound to be more companies looking for engineers at state schools as Yale is not a hotbed for engineers. While engineers make relatively high salaries right out of college, they top out quickly. Most engineers never get the "big pay check" unless they start a company or hit it big with stock options.</p>
<p>Just speculating here, I have no real familiarity with Yale's engineering program, but was at one time a working engineer with a large engineering firm. Over the years I've met two graduates of Harvard's engineering program (neither were ever practicing engineers), but none from Yale.</p>
<p>Yale could be worth it, in the same sense that Trinity College or Swarthmore could be worth it. If you want a liberal arts education but also want to take some engineering courses, whether to pursue a particular interest or to pursue graduate study in engineering later on, then you can probably do this just fine at Yale. Better than at some other "real" engineering schools, because these other places may not have what you're looking for in the liberal arts. Assuming that's your overriding interest.</p>
<p>My guess is that a lot of people who major in engineering from these small programs are : a) not so focused on actually being a real working engineer as a career; b) expecting to have to go to grad school if they do really want to be an engineer. Because the offerings at some of these small programs are not adequate to offer many advanced-level courses in the various specialized disciplines of engineering.</p>
<p>In my experience engineering employers typically want to hire a particular type of engineer (electrical, mechanical, etc), not some non-specialized engineer. It may be hard to get this type of training, at the advanced levels, at the small programs. There are probably areas of engineering that are completely absent from their available offerings. </p>
<p>The above is ok if you're planning to go to grad school to round out your training. However, your fellow engineers from RPI, CMU, etc, have less need to go to grad school, since they can get their full training through the undergraduate program. The trade-off is that these people did not receive as comprehensive an education in the liberal arts.</p>
<p>I doubt that many engineering firms recruit at Yale. Not that the students can't get engineering jobs anyway. But my guess is most don't really want to. If their passion from the outset was engineering they would have gone elsewhere.</p>
<p>So back to OP: I'd guess it would be fine to apply as an engineering major, if you make clear the whole picture of why you want to be there; ie comprehensive education in the liberal arts. Make sure first that they actually offer significant coursework in the particular branches of engineering that you think may interest you.</p>
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My guess is that a lot of people who major in engineering from these small programs are : a) not so focused on actually being a real working engineer as a career; b) expecting to have to go to grad school if they do really want to be an engineer.
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<p>Or, another common position is more of a jack-of-all-trades engineering/management job with a small company. For example, a small US-based audio company might have an engineering staff of three or four people and one key role would be for a "management" engineer to interface with Asian vendors. That person would be spending a lot of time in Japan/SE Asia, working with engineering departments on electronics, materials, tooling, industrial design, production costs, project planing, etc. The ability to understand all of those issues may be more important than an in-depth undergrad degree in any one specialty, so even if he started out with an EE degree, he's going to end up doing as much materials and tooling engineering. And, strong communication/critical thinking skills would be very important.</p>
<p>Well, don't you have to apply to a special engineering school at Yale when you are applying for undergrad? And when you are accepted, you are basically confined to that major?</p>
<p>Why not apply to Princeton? Similar liberal arts focus, selectivity, and prestige as Yale, arguably more undergraduate focus, and a top notch engineering program.</p>
<p>A lot of engineering majors at ivies want to be management consultants and ibankers. It is a good background for these jobs. Few want to actually be full time engineers.</p>
<p>It is a bad program compared with other schools</p>
<p>well actually just not as good as the ivy leauge ones</p>
<p>no way, apply to good engineering schools - MIT, CalTech, Harvey Mudd, Cornell.</p>
<p>"Or, another common position is more of a jack-of-all-trades engineering/management job with a small company. "</p>
<p>The type of opportunities you are describing were not "common" at the Career Center at My college when I was interviewing out of engineering school. But then again I attended a much larger engineering program where one declares a major in one of the traditional disciplines, and not a boutiquey "general engineering" kind of place. It's possible that the right kind of employers find the right kind of school that fits their particular needs.</p>
<p>Still, in terms of total number of engineering jobs for new graduates with no experience, what you are describing is not what I have seen much of. I'd believe it exists, but to characterize it as "common" does not jive with what I've seen. But I haven't seen everything, either.</p>
<p>One reason I suspect it would NOT be common is that new engineers basically don't know very much and they have to be trained. That training is better facilitated in a larger environment where more oversight is available. I'd think at a small place people would need to actually know what they're doing more.</p>
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The type of opportunities you are describing were not "common" at the Career Center at My college when I was interviewing out of engineering school.
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<p>It's not the kind of job that would be found in the Career Center in most cases. A more common route would be an interest in a particular industry and a more conventional job search.</p>
<p>I know several people who have made careers of this kind of job, including one who got his Masters in Engineering from Thayer at Dartmouth and ended up at a ski manufacturer. I think he is now a V-P, but hasn't sat a drafting table (later Autocad) in years.</p>
<p>Yeah... Yale has an engineering program. MIT has an English program, too. If you wanted to be an English professor, though, you wouldn't apply there because of the prestige of MIT. It's the wrong sort of prestige... The right tools for the right job, y'know?</p>
<p>If you're interested in actually practicing engineering, the reaction you're most often going to get at having an engineering degree from Yale, or from Harvard, is "Hunh... why did you go to Yale (or Harvard) if you wanted to practice engineering?" There are also going to be a lot of courses that you'd need as a practicing engineer that Yale (or Harvard) isn't going to offer. Try applying to some other equally prestigious school with an engineering program if you're really aiming to be a get-in-there-and-design-some-buildings sort of engineer.</p>
<p>zagat: AT Cornell, many people DO want to actually be full-time engineers. For a portion of their careers anyway. OR at least this used to be the case. It is (was) true though that many also don't want to.</p>
<p>Probably less so at most of the other colleges in the Ivy league, I'd agree there. I have a relative at one such place, and he's already angling towards an eventual finance career, despite his degree program in engineering.</p>
<p>Yes, moneydad, Cornell may well be the exception, producing practicing engineers in the ivy league. Does this have something to do with it being part state school? States being places where many go for more trade specific careers? Let's face it, the overachievers who make it to ivies are not likely to be happy with $125K/yr.</p>
<p>The College of Engineering at Cornell is one of the private colleges. It is not part of the State University of New York system.</p>
<p>Let's face it, there are some overachievers who make it to good schools but want to be engineers, despite the tuition. The tuition is not significantly lower at MIT, Carnegie Mellon or RPI, as far as I know. Yet I worked with real engineers who attended each of these schools too.</p>
<p>I know someone who graduated from Cornell's engineering college and is now a middle school science teacher. Poor payoff there perhaps, economically speaking, but that's what happened.</p>
<p>I know many people who attended expensive private colleges, essentially the same cost as those in the Ivy League sports conference, who majored in liberal arts, and had/have no idea whether there will be a concrete financial "payoff" in their future.</p>
<p>I have friends who graduated from school with me (the private colleges, no less) and became college professors. Their earnings are probably no higher than engineers, and they went to school for a lot longer.</p>
<p>I guess I'm torn. While it would be ideal for every kid to have a Yale like education, the pragmatist in me says that when you know you're not entering a lucrative career, the investment should be considered. </p>
<p>The other day I spoke to a young doctor in a very honored residency at UCLA. I asked if he would advise my rising senior son to pursue his path. I guess I was surprised when he said no. He told me that so many of his peers had been unrealistic. That there was a lot of bitterness when they came to understand that being an MD in California today was not going to yield the lifestyle they expected. He explained that many owed $250K which they would pay off over 30 years! And these guys make a fortune compared to engineers.</p>
<p>In the end we all want the best for our kids. But this is an investment decision. I'm curious as to what others think.</p>