"What if this, what if that…speak on your own experiences, not conjecture or speculation on how others might or should feel. "
This whole thread is about conjecture. There were no actual reported “bad” / offensive costumes at Yale. But plenty of students losing sleep over how they might respond if they occurred.
“What was lacking was basic common courtesy. The original email was intended to protect the minority students. If someone thought it should be reversed/negated for whatever reasons, common courtesy would dictate that person first check with that group or the original writer.”
The EC email did not “reverse” or “negate” the original email. It offered a slightly different nuance on the best way to combat offensive costumes. Please don’t be the kind who pretends that the EC email said “ignore Dean Howard, wear offensive costumes all you like and if others don’t like them, too bad so sad.”
And is this the new form of discourse - where you need to check in with everybody first before speaking your mind? Did the shrieking girl check in with others first?
Like other posters I found Tampa2015’s post to be an excellent addition to the conversation. I wish it were possible to give a post both a “like” and “helpful” rating. I also have to laud @Tampa2015 for speaking up at a time in life when most kids would have been unwilling or unable to.
@BoolaHI, I for one have been hesitant to tell my own personal stories for fear of making this an “us versus them” debate or to be seeming to minimize the very real subtle and not so subtle instances of racism faced by students every day, but since you seem to be calling for it here’s one.
D1, at a boarding school soccer practice, started to tell a friend a story about an event that happened on a plane ride back from Mexico. She got out the words, “I was on a plane and this little Mexican kid kept running up and down the aisle…” before being interrupted by the start of practice. One of her teammates, a Mexican freshman, overheard and told the coach D1 was telling racist stories. D was called on the carpet. Her advisor was brought in. She was lectured about being a team leader and was told by the coach that she was disappointed in her. Her “case” was raised in a faculty meeting in a discussion of racial incidents on campus.
D’s side of the story was that she was returning from a visit to her Mexican grandparents at the house we own in Mexico. The telling of the story required mention of the boy’s ethnicity because otherwise the fact that part of the story was in Spanish would not have made much sense. I’ve heard the story, as has her culturally Mexican dad. There’s nothing faintly racist about it.
D tried to explain herself to her Mexican teammate, and even apologized, but it all fell on deaf ears, ostensibly because D, an adoptee, is blonde and blue eyed. D1 was terribly upset by the idea that she was now being seen as racist by the school administration and [perhaps] the international student community. The fact that the teammate was upset overrode all. For my part, I think part of the freshman’s reaction came from the fact that she was a month into being away from home for the first time and was feeling homesick and out of her element.
D was officially absolved of any wrongdoing, but the entire episode left her feeling raw, defensive and angry. It was not a way to further the conversation, and it left her far less interested in getting to know this girl.
Hmmm, Tampa2015, in spring of 2014 you were a HS junior asking to be “chanced”. Are you pulling our legs here?
and here, a Jack Kent Cooke semifinalist
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18319637/#Comment_18319637
And you are now at Barnard:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18025428/#Comment_18025428
I thought of that too, but we can’t always control what our friends do.
What I can’t wrap my brain around is this: If you self-identify as a Martian and are proud to be Martian, then why would it be a slur if someone else identified you or a fellow citizen of Mars as a Martian?
Similarly, why is it OK for minorities to constantly refer to white people as white, and claim they have white privilege, yet whites have been be accused of being racist for responding to the question: “Which one is James?” with “The black guy in the blue shirt.”
By the tone and the introduction, I thought that @Tampa2015 was quoting someone else’s story, not presenting it as his/her own.
If so, quotation marks would have helped. But I assume good intentions.
@Tampa2015 Your personal story as you told drives the idea home of how a marginalized minority student would feel in a hostile environment. However, 40 years later and in Yale where half of the student body is non-white (very much different than the classroom you were sitting in 40 years ago with only 4 black kids), is the type of hostile environment a given here? Granted, it doesn’t take a majority to shape the tone of the school environment. Just look at the few “cool kids” in a bad public school that could make many students’ life hell. But this is not HS, and while I can imagine some highly privileged students flaunting wealth, good fortune and even arrogance in others’ faces, I don’t believe they are HS “cool kids” that bully others on a daily basis. The point is - Erika’s email suggested that the community should consider whether Yale is type of environment/community where issues related to “cultural in-sensitivities” can be addressed through dialogues instead of policing. It was an idea. And remember the outrageous costumes didn’t happen. It’s a conversation about the topic that triggered the outrage.
Well, consolation, a quick google search on lines from that post of Tampa2015’s pulls up only… that cc post from Tampa2015. If it is a quote from someone else’s writing, its not searchable on google. And she refers to post 1130, near the end, as “my story”.
PG,
Having privilege doesn’t mean one doesn’t have any kind of burden to bear. This is one point those who are part of the privileged majority usually miss.
Having privilege from my understanding means one doesn’t deal with the same types, degree, and/or frequency of burdens those who aren’t privileged have to undergo on a regular…sometimes daily part of their lives.
For instance, a college student or young adult who is highly privileged from an SES standpoint may think nothing of spending $50-100 on eating out or clubbing each night. On the other hand, a college student/young adult who isn’t as highly privileged in this area may be too financially constrained to join the more SES privileged person in what he/she’d consider highly expensive/financially unfeasible nightly activities. And other less privileged SES students/young adults may be so financially constrained that there’s serious question about whether he/she has shelter over his/her head or where & when his/her next meal is coming from. Having to consider financial constraints is far less of a burden to those who are privileged in the SES context than those who lack it.
Racially, Whites on average are rarely questioned about their right to be on public streets/areas by local law enforcement or neighbors in majority White areas whereas African-Americans and Latinos not only experience being questioned on this score much more often, but sometimes even subject to constitutionally sketchy traffic stops, searches, and being subjected to racist commentary from LEOs even if they happen to be from a higher SES as my older AA male double-degree college classmate from a higher SES background has experienced regularly from adolescence onward for merely being AA.
In gifted/respectable/elite academic institutions and sometimes even workplaces, White students are far less likely to have their academic/professional qualifications questioned in a demeaning manner on a regular basis as opposed to their AA and Latino counterparts.
In that context, a White individual, including one who is not privileged in an SES context WOULD be privileged in a racial context as they’re far less likely to experience those types of ongoing or even daily burdens AA and Latinos often face with greater frequency and severity in their lives.
Maybe this is the introvert in me, but if someone reveals themselves to be a jerk, then they don’t HAVE any “social standing” that I care about in the least. I don’t care if they are in the hot fraternity or have the coolest clothes or whatever. I don’t care about them, and I find it amazingly easy to put out of my life people whose opinions I don’t respect. I think sometimes the bad thing about being an extrovert is that you give too much power to other people’s opinions. Jerks will always have opinions; so be it. Again, trees falling in the forest.
The last paragraph of Tampa’s post makes it clear she is speaking about herself.
@jym626; @Consolation My daughter used my CC account. She was a high school junior in the fall of 2013. She is now a freshman at Barnard College of Columbia University. Thank you for inquiring. She is doing well at Barnard and she is happy.
Additionally, once again, your suggestion that I engage those folks from middle school in discussion is emblatic of the problem. I did not torture, demean, or abuse them. They hurt me. So having moved on, you perceive that I should revisit those folks for some unarticulated reason. What is it that I should look to gain from those discussions? I certainly don’t expect any apology. What they have accomplished in their lives has nothing to do with me today. I don’t feel the need to follow up on the status of those who harassed me. Some people feel like they can resolve the problems of others. I don’t harbor that perception.
My story was shared to explain how the teen student who is feeling hurt and betrayed cannot appreciate the “ignore them advice” when they are in the midst of the pain. The old adage “sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me” is folklore. Words hurt. It is immensely difficult to rationalize with someone in the midst of their pain. If that pain seems to be minimized or completely overlooked, then expect an attack. Fight or flight. Once the fleeing ends, the fight is going to be fierce. For some, the fighting has no parameters in terms of decorum because they feel all bets are off. So while I don’t think I would have adopted the behavior of the young woman challenging Mr. C at Yale, I can certainly understand how she arrived at her boiling point. I can only pray that she learns through this process and develops additional coping mechanisms.
You’re failing to take into account that such assessments aren’t occurring in a vacuum between individuals, but is systemic and could have far reaching consequences which cannot be ignored.
This could range from being subjected to a hostile school/work environment one may not be able to easily extricate themselves from due to financial or other constraints to being passed over for promotion due to discrimination against a member of a recognized protected marginalized class.
And at the FSAs, more senior cadets and those who have higher rank DO have real authority over more junior and/or lower-ranked cadets which makes it even less “ignorable” as they do have the power to discipline, undermine, sabotage, or even get the latter expelled.
Incidentally, there’s many accusations that marginalized students “fake incidents” by posters who are either part of the dominant racial majority or sympathize with them here on this thread.
Unfortunately, such denialist attitudes have a long history in US discourse as this one case underscores:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Chesnut_Whittaker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_at_West_Point:_The_Court-Martial_of_Johnson_Whittaker
But we’re not talking about the service academies in which senior cadets have higher rank and more power over junior cadets and have the authority to force them to do x, y or z. We’re talking about regular schools, in which all students are equals. They just are. There’s no ifs, ands or buts about it.
Two people using the same account is not allowed on CC, Tampa2015.
Tampa,
Middle schoolers can be jerks. I suspect most of us have horror stories from stuff peers did in middle school. But they can and many, if not most, do hopefully mature and change. You have an opportunity to experience that, and perhaps to get an opportunity to address the issue as an adult to an adult. I was bullied by someone in our middle school timeframe that made me choose not to return to the program where it occurred. Now, 40+ years later there happened to be a reunion of some of the people from that activity (she was not there) but I had the opportunity to explain to my friends why I had not returned. And that “meanie” has gone on to be a productive person, who herself has had some painful experiences. If we had the opportunity to discuss these experiences, we would probably find more in common than not.
Am suggesting that if the story is accurate, that one consider to be openminded. There is as much an oportunity for healing as there is for picking at a scab and reopening a wound. Many of us have scars, which can be healed. Food for thought.
FYI this is against the TOS, one reason being the confusion and skepticism that occurs when a member’s other writings seem to contradict current posts. People have lost their posting privileges for doing this, so just giving you a heads up.
@Pizzagirl, you are an unusually strong-minded person. 
I think that you find it easier to march to your own drummer than most people do. (I don’t think it’s an extrovert/introvert thing.)
Cobrat, I don’t know why you are stating the obvious. Of COURSE I know that whites aren’t questioned the way blacks can be when they are just going about their daily business or “driving while black.” We’re all aware how Obama’s academic credentials were questioned in a way that white politicians’ academic credentials aren’t. It’s horrible and shameful. But I find it insulting and condescending that you think you need to “remind” us of things that are, sadly, still part of America in the year 2015, as if we don’t already know.
As for your point:
“For instance, a college student or young adult who is highly privileged from an SES standpoint may think nothing of spending $50-100 on eating out or clubbing each night. On the other hand, a college student/young adult who isn’t as highly privileged in this area may be too financially constrained to join the more SES privileged person in what he/she’d consider highly expensive/financially unfeasible nightly activities.”
Yes. Poor people have less money than middle class people, who in turn have less money than rich people. That’s part of life. There’s really little that can be done about it. More sensitive campuses ensure that there is lots of free / nearly free entertainment on campus. If you go to school in a big city, it may be harder to avoid that. But that’s how life goes. Yes, the richer kid doesn’t have to worry about money the way the poorer kid does. That doesn’t mean that the richer kid is necessarily devil-may-care. I assure you my kids haven’t spent $50-100 on eating out or clubbing in their lives. They weren’t raised that way. So, I know it’s fashionable to pretend all rich kids just drop money right and left because you knew some high school classmate whose cousin’s best friend’s dentist’s neighbor’s dogsitter’s cousin’s former roommate’s brother was wealthy and HE dropped that kind of money, but don’t stereotype. You tend to stereotype “rich people” a lot, and it’s very offensive and annoying.
The reference to the holiday party resonated with me. Growing up Jewish, I’ve experienced the pervasive role of Christianity in the US in a number of ways both small and large: being asked what I received for Christmas or whether I had a nice Christmas and never knowing whether to explain that I didn’t celebrate or just answer, being bombarded with imagery of Christmas and having to sing Christmas carols in school, being tasked with the role of the representative goose for the “six geese a laying” verse of the days of Christmas song for an elementary school production, being repeatedly taunted all year by a student in my middle school gym class who whispered “dirty Jew” every time she saw me, as a law student clerking for a summer at a small North Carolina law school having to attend a Sunday morning prayer service at the home of the gracious senior partner who invited all of the summer associates to his beach house, as a mother having to decide whether to mention to my daughter’s gymnastics coach that having each child bring a Christmas tree ornament to the team’s “holiday party” gift exchange was not appropriate, etc. etc.
I mention these because although some are clearly objectionable, others are less so, and my own feelings towards living as a religious minority have changed over time. I was much more offended when I was my youngest, but as I aged, I became less so. I never wanted a Christmas tree (or a Channukah bush as some families had) in my home, but in high school I started to love going to my best friend’s house for Christmas eve so that I could experience the spectacle of Christmas there. When I was younger, I might have taken offense to being invited to a holiday party where gingerbread cookies or eggs were decorated, but as I’ve aged, I’ve come to appreciate the opportunity to experience the more secular traditions associated with other people’s cultures and religions (especially where someone else provides the ingredients, the instruction, and the space in which to make a mess!).
I think it is very hard to dictate to society how to handle these types of issues because there is no one right answer. While I might enjoy learning how to decorate an egg, someone else might find that totally disrespectful and repugnant. And that may have been one of the points of Erika’s e-mail. It’s better that we engage in dialogue on how to navigate these differences because once we have moved past “the dirty Jew” and the “N word”, there’s less clear lines to draw and we are going to have to negotiate those lines in the communities in which we live and work. I think that her e-mail might have found a less negative reception had she focused more on that aspect of her message, which she did handle well, and less on the free speech aspect, as I would think/hope that most of students at Yale who would choose an inappropriate costume would do so out of ignorance, rather than as a form of free speech to express their distaste for a particular person or group. Although I don’t disagree with the importance of protecting free speech, I don’t believe the original Halloween costume e-mail was intended to suppress free speech, and I think that’s where a proper dialogue about self-regulation of behavior in a pluralistic society became derailed.