Yale is Imploding over a Halloween Email

PragmaticMom, which of those examples refer to conservative perpetrators - I couldn’t find such reference.

Also, I would remind everyone not to assume who commits which acts or why - there is a long history of hoax crimes and of perpetrators being not what you would expect, including the fact that a recent number of church burnings were committed by a black man.

I always think it’s great, though, when people who identify as one political persuasion or the other seek information from sources that wouldn’t be expected, like a liberal citing the NY Post.

Ah, but @PragmaticMom, those students don’t represent any kind of wider trend, or any other group, and are just isolated incidents of individual behavior. Totally different from that one angry girl at Yale. Right?

Hunt, do you know that those examples are in any way connected in terms of philosophy and political goals? Do you know from other sources that any/all of them are, in fact conservatives?

I’m not aware of evidence that all people demanding racial fairness are “liberals.” Are we assuming that to be the case?

I am not, but I hadn’t been in that conversation. However, PragmaticMom seems to be using these examples to make a point about conservative behavior, and I am respectfully not seeing the connection. I was wondering if it’s something that is known for some reason to all but me.

I don’t assume political persuasion of the perpetrators to be conservative voters - only that the content of their views are extremely conservative, one might say, regressive. Your question could easily re-directed to those who fault liberals and liberal parents for the views of Yale student, whose voting record has not yet been made public.

Hi Zoosermom. I’m responding to threads like #1546 and a couple of others upstream that directed the conversation in this direction. As previously stated, I think young people, of all political stripes, are mirroring what is happening in society at large. Saying that the Yale student’s poor behavior is setting a new low for political discourse is not accurate. I did not fault parents (liberal or conservative) for the lack of decorum. My comments on that were in reaction to that connection being made elsewhere. I fault adults with power and influence for not modeling better behavior in the public space.

But I am asking you how those examples represent anything other than your own opinions and, yes, biases. You have no basis to link those examples with conservative views, you just hate conservatives, so you assume that anything you find hateful must be conservative. Well that’s at least an honest, open position that leaves no room for ambiguity and I actually applaud you for being completely upfront with what you think. There’s another poster who is also very open (“I don’t like conservatives, I would never be friends with one”) and I hold the greatest respect for her, as well.

zoosermom: what is your definition of conservative? liberal?

Well I will tell you what is my definition for neither:

racist, violent, criminal, ignorant.

And allh, why is that even relevant? I just politely asked PragmaticMom how she came to chose those examples for the point her post was making.

You are absolutely right, zoosermom. I am not arguing with either of you, just curious how you define yourself. But I’m wondering if I need to flag my own post, because we can’t discuss politics and I don’t want to derail the thread that way. Sorry about that.

Since in my mind almost every action is a political action of some sort, I lose track of what is and isn’t allowed.

Hmmm. Throwing eggs at “Take Back the Night” marchers. I’ve got to say that one, at least, suggests to me the expression of a conservative point of view, in an inappropriate way, of course. And that’s what we’re talking about here, right? Some people think that at least some of the Yale protesters are expressing their views in an inappropriate way (i.e., by yelling at a professor).

But did anybody here take note of the names of the students involved in those fraternity-related incidents to ensure that they wouldn’t be hired by major corporations? Maybe they did.

Zoosermom, I think we are on the same page after all. I was responding specifically to another poster who blamed liberals for the Yale student’s behavior. If there is no blame to conservatives for the examples I posted, then there is no blame to liberals for the Yale student’s behavior. I’m in agreement that there is no connection in either. Your question hits the nail on the head for both sides. From the definition of liberal and conservative, you excluded racist, violent, criminal and ignorant. Would you also add to that list of exclusions: expletive-laced tirades against school officials?

You don’t know me. Please don’t assume I hate conservatives. My significant other is a conservative voter and even ran for local office as a Republican. I don’t hate him, as an example.

You’ll find that others posting upthread blame liberals for the Yale student’s behavior. And, perhaps we can set them straight together.

I will reiterate that the obsession over the behavior of the Yale student is a diversion from the issue that started this thread in the first place. No one has defended her poor behavior, though they’ve empathized with her view. Let’s move on.

Yes, lets move on. I never thought my comment on how protests are conducted would spark this chain.

@PragmaticMom -

These are examples of offensive and racist speech, but it is not in any way, shape or form conservative speech. Maybe your mind conflates the two, but the vast majority of conservatives would strongly disagree with you. Frankly, it is ludicrous that you automatically assume that all fraternity members are conservatives.

If you look at data from the North American Interfraternity Conference, in the current Congress, there are a great many Senators and Representatives who are members of the Democratic party. Here is the current break down:

Senate - 14 Democrats (27%), 1 Independent (50%), 24 Republicans (44%)

In the Senate, 38% of all former Greek members are Democrats or Independents.

House of Representatives - 40 Democrats (20%), 66 Republicans (28%)

In the House, 42% of all former Greek members are Democrats. The following link has the complete dataset.

http://www.nicindy.org/political-leaders.html

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2015/11/30/faculty-sign-letter-defending-christakis-email/
Finally!
In discussions over Thanksging break, family members made comparisons between the shrieking girl situation and Red Guard in Cultural Revolution. In the name of ‘social justice,’ the young red guards attacked their professors verbally then physically to gain political capitals, and sadly the tactic worked well in that society. If Christakises are forced to resign, anyone on Yale campus will be afraid of expressing disagreement on issues. No, don’t let Yale become the frontline of intellectual repression. Don’t be silienced.

There are very intelligent parents on this thread. I realize it may sound simplistic to say that I require civility from people I interact with regardless of their gender, their political persuasion, their race etc. The ends do not justify the means. Acting angry and bitter will not put your position in a good light. Ranting will cause people to turn away or turn off the TV. If you are smart enough to get into Yale, then you are smart enough to know that not all white people are racist, not all Republicans are rude/ignorant, not all Democrats feel the same way about things and they are not all pure of heart… And perhaps the most important lesson is that it is simply not persuasive or helpful to act like this to prove a point. I do think Yale is probably embarrassed because they do not want the top tier kids to choose Harvard or another college. Yale probably wants to be in the news for their curriculum and for how wonderful their students are and not for entitled students who got their feelings hurt.

Major difference was the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guards were really a revolution ran from above by Mao and his political allies with full backing of the government, legal system, and its military/LEO/secret police. No surprise as Mao was “the chairman” of the PRC and the CCP in that period and those allied with him the ruling elite of that society.

Unless you can show me the Yale protesters have the direct backing of the US government to the point the US armed forces, National guard, FBI, and local police are taking their side and arresting, persecuting, and in some cases even beating up/murdering EC and the Profs at Yale…such a comparison is hyperbolic and an example of a godwin.

And I speak as someone who had a branch of my family persecuted because some members were Profs and studied that period in some depth…

SpringGarden13: the students have faculty support.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/13/minority-students-at-yale-give-list-of-demands-to-university-president/

Rather than just being a reaction to particular local events or an accumulation of local events, it is apparent to me that the protesters’ perception and interpretation of racial matters is definitely informed by ideology. The rhetoric and demands of the protesters often invoked concepts such as privilege, microaggressions, safe spaces, lived experience, cultural appropriation, etc. These concepts derive from a particular ideology called “Critical Race Theory.” This ideology started in law schools in the 1990s and has become a common theoretical framework and form of analysis in several fields, particularly in African American studies, women’s/gender/sexuality studies, and in some education, communication, and literature departments. I won’t go into the details of this convoluted, and often obscure, ideology here, but you can do a Google search or check these links to assess it for yourselves:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory
https://spacrs.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/what-is-critical-race-theory/
http://academicaffairs.ucsc.edu/events/documents/Critical%20Race%20Theory%20Racial%20Microaggressions%20and%20Campus%20Racial%20Climate-The%20Experiences%20of%20African%20American%20College%20Students-JNE.pdf
http://ucop.edu/academic-personnel-programs/_files/seminars/Article_Campus_Racial_Climate_for_Latinos.pdf
https://www.uvm.edu/~vtconn/v31/Hiraldo.pdf
https://research.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files/publications/2012/7/presentation-2007-3-critical-race-theory.pdf
http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1238&context=cjlpp

I think the role of this ideology has largely been overlooked in many discussions of the protests, perhaps reflecting the prevalence and acceptance of these concepts in everyday discourse on many campuses.

My personal thought/impression/opinion about the specific protestors, for what it’s worth (which is not much) is that the behavior isn’t caused by ideology in the true sense, but by the fact that it is easy for anyone to become swept up by strong and pervasive emotions. It happens to be that the prevailing emotions held a specific POV, but I think any young person (and old person) could easily become caught up when seemingly most of the people around the, are stirring each other up. I would have been appalled if one of my kids behaved that way, but not for political reasons. It just happens that I am a very, very formal person and I believe that carries over to my kids. It’s just not the kind of out of control, open, unseemly behavior that I would condone regardless of the reason. I know people who are very open and passionate and who find that openness just a different way of communicating. I don’t think she is a terrible person, but her behavior would really bother me, even if I agreed with the cause,