<p>Yale Law School #s </p>
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<p>I was able to locate Yale law school student profile for 2005.</p>
<p>As expected, Yale has the highest percentage of admits from its own undergrad school. Does this not expose some bias on their part? I wonder if it's the same for Harvard also.</p>
<p>No, actually there are 94 students from Harvard in this class as compared to 85 from Yale.</p>
<p>One aspect I dislike about these profiles is that many people think these numbers indicate how many were admitted per year, which is not the case. The numbers given on that page indicate how many students from each undergraduate school are attending the law school at this moment, regardless of whether they are 1Ls, 2Ls, or 3Ls.</p>
<p>The same applies to the HLS admit profile.</p>
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No, actually there are 94 students from Harvard in this class as compared to 85 from Yale.
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<p>What I said: "Yale has the highest percentage of admits from its own undergrad school"</p>
<p>Yale's class is almost half the size of Harvard's, yet has nearly as many as enrolled students as Harvard does. Either Yale students kick that much ass, or there is some admittance bias taking place within YLS (probably a little bit of both).</p>
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Yale's class is almost half the size of Harvard's, yet has nearly as many as enrolled students as Harvard does.
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<p>This assumes that more students from Harvard actually applied.</p>
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This assumes that more students from Harvard actually applied.
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<p>Why would less students apply from a similar school amost twice as big? Unles I'm missing something, that's an extremely reasoned assumption!</p>
<p>The point: Yale has a higher percentage of students admitted into its own law school than Harvard. </p>
<p>The question: Is it the same for Harvard with its law school?</p>
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that's an extremely reasoned assumption!
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<p>No, it is not. Inductively, there is insufficient evidence.</p>
<p>In 2004, 197 students applied. In 2003, 225 students applied, and in 2002, 195 applied.</p>
<p>Edit: Given that the average GPA of Yale admits into YLS is a 3.8, one can assume that the same median would apply to Harvard. Since it is so difficult to earn at least a 3.75 at Harvard, it would not be surprising if less applied.</p>
<p>I understand where you are going, but am confident that GPA discrepencies would not discourage so many Harvard students to not apply to YLS. Frankly, it doesn't matter anyway. Consider that even if the same amount of students from Harvard and Yale both applied to YLS, the percentage of undergrad students at Yale who got in would still be a lot higher than the percentage of undergrad students at Harvard. Finally, I don't care about YLS anyway. I was just curious to see if HLS has a bias for Harvard students, period.</p>
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Since it is so difficult to earn at least a 3.75 at Harvard
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<p>How much harder is it to earn a 3.75+ GPA at Harvard than it is at Yale? They didn't earn this for nothing: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.gradeinflation.org%5B/url%5D">http://www.gradeinflation.org</a></p>
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Consider that even if the same amount of students from Harvard and Yale both applied to YLS, the percentage of undergrad students at Yale who got in would still be a lot higher than the percentage of undergrad students at Harvard.
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<p>That is the assumption you are making!</p>
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How much harder is it to earn a 3.75+ GPA at Harvard than it is at Yale?
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<p>It is pretty difficult! I do not know whether it is easier or harder.</p>
<p>Also consider how many score above a 170 on the LSAT. The number of students with such a combination are not high.</p>
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but am confident that GPA discrepencies would not discourage so many Harvard students to not apply to YLS.
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<p>This is yet another poor assumption.</p>
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Consider that even if the same amount of students from Harvard and Yale both applied to YLS, the percentage of undergrad students at Yale who got in would still be a lot higher than the percentage of undergrad students at Harvard.
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<p>This was the idea I was trying to communicate (I mistyped):</p>
<p>Consider that even if the amount of students from Yale outnumbered the students from Harvard, the percentage of undergrad students at Yale who got in would still be a lot higher than the percentage of undergrad students at Harvard. </p>
<p>Do you see what I'm saying? It's like this: no matter how many students applied from either school, Yale will still have a much higher proportion of students admitted than Harvard due to its sheer class size.</p>
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but am confident that GPA discrepencies would not discourage so many Harvard students to not apply to YLS.
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This is yet another poor assumption.
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<p>WAIIIIT A SECOND. First you make the assumption that Harvard students aren't going to apply in as great a mass as Yale students are because Harvard is harder, but when asked how hard it is to get a 3.75+ GPA at Yale vs. Harvard, YOU DON'T KNOW? </p>
<p>That's like saying less people apply from Manchester Prep than Andover to Yale because Manchester Prep is harder, but then when asked again if Manchester Prep is harder than Andover, you reply "It is pretty difficult! I do not know whether it is easier or harder." Which is it?</p>
<p>The assumption stands: Yale and Harvard are EXTREMELY similar schools with EXTREMELY similar applicants! This is common sense! Yale College has a higher proportion of students enrolled in YLS than Harvard College does, regardless of the respective applicant pools anyway. </p>
<p>Now, does anyone know if Harvard is similar with its law school?</p>
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Do you see what I'm saying? It's like this: no matter how many students applied from either school Yale will still have a much higher proportion of students admitted than Harvard due to sheer class size.
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<p>That does not make any sense. Whether a higher percentage of the class size is admitted is irrelevant. The relevant percentage is of those who are admitted out of those who applied.</p>
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First you make the assumptiont that Harvard students aren't going to apply in as great a mass as Yale students are, but when asked how hard it is to get a 3.75+ GPA at Yale vs. Harvard, YOU DON'T KNOW?
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<p>Check the statistics and see how many students from Harvard graduate magna and summa. </p>
<p>I was not saying that one school is more difficult than the other. I was merely saying that it is difficult to earn a 3.75+ at Harvard, thus meaning that there are even fewer persons who applied.</p>
<p>Edit: I am not aiming to prove that there were less applicants from Harvard. What I am aiming to demonstrate, however, is that you are making an unreasonable assumption.</p>
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I was merely saying that it is difficult to earn a 3.75+ at Harvard, thus meaning that there are even fewer persons who applied.
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<p>Then the same applies to Yale. So what's the point?</p>
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Whether a higher percentage of the class size is admitted is irrelevant. The relevant percentage is of those who are admitted out of those who applied.
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<p>Simply put: it is relevant. I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Here's how I came to mine:</p>
<p>Yale College has about 1200 students per class vs. about 2000 students per class for Harvard College.</p>
<p>If 85/1200 get in from Yale and 94/2000 get in from Harvard, we clearly have a higher proportion of Yale College graduates than Harvard College graduates in YLS. </p>
<p>You seem to be concerned with those who applied from Yale vs. those who applied from Harvard. Your "base" is only those who applied. In that case, Yale still has a lower "pool" of applicants to draw from since it only has 1200 students who could be interested in applying in the first place vs. Harvard's 2000. Your statistic sheds light onto the equation but not as much as mine. I'm simply looking for College bias, out of curiousity. What are you looking for?</p>
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If 85/1200 get in from Yale and 94/2000 get in from Harvard, we clearly have a higher proportion of Yale College graduates than Harvard College graduates in YLS.
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<p>Yes, but that does not show a preference for either of the schools!</p>
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In that case, Yale still has a lower "pool" of applicants to draw from since it only has 1200 students who could be interested in applying in the first place vs. Harvard's 2000.
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<p>Which is an unreasonable assumption. Belaboring the statement will not make it true.</p>
<p>I don't see how the percentage of a school's graduating class attending YLS has so much significance in determining bias. It is not as if every graduate cares to apply to law school to begin with. Nor is it obvious that the same percentage of each graduating class applies to every Ivy LS. There simply isn't enough data to make that sort of a correlation.</p>
<p>If Yale Law School wants to be "biased" in any way in favor of graduates of Yale, isn't it entitled to do so? No one ever suggested that law school admissions was an egalitarian system. Just like many colleges tend to admit more students from certain high schools, many law schools tend to admit more students from certain colleges.</p>
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<p>Yale College has about 1200 students per class vs. about 2000 students per class for Harvard College.</p>
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<p>Where in the world are you getting these numbers? Yale's graduating class this year was 1281.</p>
<p>This is a substantial decrease from the 1350+ classes of five years ago (i.e. the people who are in law school now):</p>
<p>Harvard's was 1641; this number has not changed by more than 10 or so students in many years.</p>
<p>That's not "almost twice as big" by any stretch of the imagination. Yale has ~80% as many graduates as Harvard who are currently law-school age.</p>
<p>Re differential treatment, I can tell you that for Harvard graduates in 1999, they were admitted to Yale Law at three times the overall admit rate and admitted to Harvard Law at three times the overall admit rate. So it appeared to me that both law schools were treating them roughly the same. I don't have more recent data in front of me, but I've been told that while admit rates have gone down overall, the ratios have stayed roguhly the same.</p>
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I can tell you that for Harvard graduates in 1999, they were admitted to Yale Law at three times the overall admit rate and admitted to Harvard Law at three times the overall admit rate. So it appeared to me that both law schools were treating them roughly the same. I don't have more recent data in front of me, but I've been told that while admit rates have gone down overall, the ratios have stayed roguhly the same.
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<p>Finally some good info on this thread. The exact numbers would be interesting.</p>
<p>It would be nice to know the absolute number of applicants from each undergraduate college. In the meantime, perhaps we can make some intuitive leaps. One that seems plausible to me is that Yale College graduates are more likely to apply to YLS and Harvard College graduates are more likely apply to HLS. </p>
<p>It's probable that many of these students have spouses or significant others (with jobs) and that they already have places to live in New Haven and Cambridge, respectively. We can surmise that many grew attached to their undergraduate colleges. Why would significant numbers of graduates uproot to attend the other law school when both law schools are similarly ranked?</p>