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<p>I agree and I would add that this probably applies to more than just pre-meds. The last one is the only real reason to consider spending a lot of money for a college education.</p>
<p>"That’s where we draw the line between duck and swan. "</p>
<p>I’m surprised somebody had the strength to type out “duck” and “swan.” Given the vagueness of the original post, it would have been more appropriate to have had that entire fowl discussion unfold with just “dk” and “sn” and everybody pretending he/she knew what was going on.</p>
<p>Studies have concluded, and I’d agree, that an elite education will benefit the lower-income student more than it will benefit the student coming from a high socio-economic background. The latter already has resources and connections, whereas the former can obtain those at a place like Yale better than he could at USD. My S, for example, got funding from his Ivy to do an unpaid internship. He wouldn’t have been able to do it otherwise. The friends he met there are also better connected in business (dads are CEO’s etc.) than those in our home town who are attending the state flagship, to be sure.</p>
<p>Actually, that study (for what it’s worth) showed NO economic benefit for other than low-income students. And since there are so few low-income students at Yale (8.9% on Pell Grants) or Harvard (now at 5.6%), it’s a good thing there are other benefits.</p>
<p>Now, I admit, as a long-term homeschooling advocate and international traveler and worker, I’m somewhat of an iconoclast. I feel fairly certain that, give me a $120k to supplement the education of the average USD student and I can run rings around the educational quality differences provided by an Ivy League education.</p>
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I’m not entering the fray again, but I had to come back to make a concession.</p>
<p>It was late last night, while watching a basketball game, that I finally got this joke.</p>
<p>University of Oregon Ducks.</p>
<p>Apparently, my alma mater may have been even worse than Bay’s in teaching one how to recognize humor. :)</p>
<p>curmudgeon, are you saying that it would be better to go to USD than Yale in order to gain admission to a good med school? I find that extremely hard to believe.</p>
<p>I also have some reactions to the following:
They can, but they probably won’t. In the real world, as opposed to the world of imagination and possibility, that is.</p>
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Yes, but if you put in the same amount at both schools, the one with more prestige will open more doors for you.</p>
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This kind of reverse snobbery is just as tiresome as elitism.</p>
<p>And the guy that couldn’t talk to his plumber was an idiot, wherever he want to school.</p>
<p>Hunt:</p>
<p>re-read curm’s point #1…</p>
<p>I did, but then he says:
This is what I don’t get.</p>
<p>"They can, but they probably won’t. In the real world, as opposed to the world of imagination and possibility, that is.</p>
<p>Yes, but if you put in the same amount at both schools, the one with more prestige will open more doors for you."</p>
<p>Strange as it may seem, the aforementioned study indicated both assumptions are false, except for low-income students. </p>
<p>On the other point: let’s remember that the percentage of Yale students going to medical school has dropped precipitously (65%) in just 30 years (according to Yale’s own statistics). It’s not that they COULDN’T go to medical school (we don’t know that one way or other other) only that they DIDN’T. It may be that many of those former Yale pre-meds just went to other, less expensive schools for pre-med, and then went on to med school, while Yale students found other things to do. Or that the weed-out became much stiffer at Yale. I remember the weed-out at Williams, when I was an undergrad. Some 110-115 students came in as pre-med. 30 went to med school. 95% admissions rate. But the reality is that some 80 of them would have been fine doctors, and would have been had they gone to second-tier state universities. (Whether that is a good thing or bad thing, I don’t know. I’m sure the bulk of that 80 made fine contributions to the world, and human plumbers are valuable, but not gods.)</p>
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<p>Nooooo!! Really!!! All these years I thought you were such a traditionalist!</p>
<p>I am not at all surprised by the study showing that only low income students get a $$ boost from an elite education. That makes sense to me.</p>
<p>But what’s more interesting is that non-poor ones - i.e. middle class ones, etc. - the bulk of those receiving need-based aid - DIDN’T.</p>
<p>For me, I think it has to do with worlds. One of the things that struck me at our visit to D’s LAC this week was that she was going to enter a world that was just unfamiliar to her – a world in which these girls considered Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore their (friendly) competition – as opposed to her current world in which I bet not more than a dozen teachers in her entire high school have even heard of Williams, Amherst or Swarthmore. Just the concept of opening one’s eyes to a broader world. I think that is a lot of what the experience of an elite school offers. To me, the extent to which a school draws nationally vs locally is a huge driver (and a reason why, as excellent as some of the UC’s are, they are too concentrated in Calif-only students for my personal taste). I think elite schools are about horizon-expanding, and I think it’s easier to expand horizons with a really broad, wide-ranging group of people. I have no dog in USD, but I would have to imagine most students are from, well, the San Diego area.</p>
<p>^^Well, a USD mom here. DD started in a quad in freshman year. The 4 girls were from Virginia, Wisconsin, Alabama and LA. She has good friends from Arizona, Alaska, Colorado Washington State. There are some from the local area, but with the downturned economy, lots of affordable options locally as well.</p>
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<p>The implication that a full ride to USD is not also an opportunity is what sets off elitist alarms.</p>
<p>Frankly, the OP is in an enviable position, except for figuring out if Yale is worth the extra price the OP has to pay. Hopefully, the decision will be made on more carefully thought-out values other than “guts”.</p>
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<p>USD is a private school, not a UC.</p>
<p>Also, all that romantic “horizon” expanding? you mean it felt that way on admitted students day? Really??? Too funny. For someone so notorious for not drinking the cool-aid, it’s fun to watch you fall for it when your own kids’ futures are concerned. </p>
<p>I think the OP should send the kid to Yale, because: 1. the doctor landscape is changing radically and may not even be worth the loans by the time OPs student graduates. 2. Student is in no way able to judge whether or not he/she will end up going to med school. 3. Yale is a good thing to have in your back pocket, kind of like a really great credit rating, or a trust fund. </p>
<p>Please disregard if you are Catholic, in which case the long term benefits of going to school with other Catholics, including the likelihood of finding a compatible mate, go up exponentially. The jury is still out as to whether your life partner or your alma mater has a larger influence on how well you do in life, though probably your life partner is more important, long term. :)</p>
<p>My husband was for free ride to OSU for our S. My S chose UPenn (He had other Ivy to choose from). One of his reasons was that he would be able to get his Master’s and Bachelor’s at the same time. We will be going to 2 graduations in May - his BA graduation and his Master’s the next day. </p>
<ol>
<li>My S became a resident advisor for two years (No room & board expenses)</li>
<li>Had a good campus management job plus a TA job (yes - three jobs he chose to do)</li>
<li>Was able to go part-time and pay for part-time tuition in his 4th year as he had too many credits - (Some credits gained by test placements in college, some AP credits)</li>
<li>Received a great consulting job offer open only to select school graduates (MIT, Princeton, Cornell, Harvard - unless you have a graduate degree or PhD).
My husband stopped complaining about paying his tuition “when it could have been free”.</li>
</ol>
<p>Yale and USD will be a totally different experiences. If the plan is to live in California, become a doctor, etc. then USD will probably give more local networking opportunities. Yale is a tough school to “shine” because </p>
<p>If choosing Yale and get a student loan, don’t wait until graduation to pay back. You will accrue less interest, even if a small payment is made monthly. My S will be able to pay off his student loan with his “big” salary within a year.</p>
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Why? I don’t understand.</p>
<p>
The “elitist” carping began–as it always does–when somebody dared to point out that the student body is academically stronger at Yale and that going there is a great opportunity. Sure, a full ride to USD is an opportunity. By analogy, it’s like being offered a free Honda Accord. The Yale offer is like being offered a BMW for about half price. Lots of people would take the Honda, and others would rather have the discounted BMW.</p>
<p>Hunt, I resisted the temptation to use the car analogy on this thread but since you started…</p>
<p>If </p>
<p>University of Michigan = Toyota Camry XLE V6,</p>
<p>then</p>
<p>Yale = Lexus ES350</p>
<p>Both great, very similar in quality. One is clearly more luxurious.</p>
<p>The question is,</p>
<p>USD = ? </p>
<p>I honestly don’t know, but I <em>suspect</em> it is not in the same car class. May still be very reliable transportation, and be more than enough to serve someone’s needs, but not a Camry or Lexus.</p>
<p>The thing that I can’t understand is, most people will be very willing to say “The Lexus is a great car, but I can’t afford it so I am buying a Camry…or a Kia…or whatever”". But some people here on CC just can’t bring themselves to admit that about colleges.</p>
<p>Call me an elitist if you like.</p>
<p>In the hopes of perhaps giving the OP (or similar situated) people some useful info, I took a look at USD’s website to see if I could find out more about how premeds from there do. Here’s a quote from the page of their Biochemistry major:
And here’s a FAQ for their premeds:
<a href=“http://www.sandiego.edu/cas/documents/prehealth/faq.pdf[/url]”>http://www.sandiego.edu/cas/documents/prehealth/faq.pdf</a>
Note in particular what they say (and don’t say) about the percentage of premeds who get into med school.</p>
<p>Here’s a bit of info for Yale:
<a href=“Yale College Health Professions Distribution - Google My Maps”>Yale College Health Professions Distribution - Google My Maps;