<p>Princeton is in the middle of nowhere. New haven, though more "dingy" has far more (museums, theaters, even minor league sports) to offer college students than the surrounding farm of Princeton. I grew up there, trust me, its very very boring unless you're on campus. If you go to Princeton, you'll be stuck on campus too.</p>
<p>edit: read this article from the sunday new york times on new haven, it'll debunk many of the myths</p>
<p>Yeah go to Yale-it would free up one spot which could hypothetically go to the wailist and hypothetically again,to me ;)</p>
<p>They are both great schools. My d chose to apply ED at Princeton over Yale because Princeton offered much more in her particular EC in the arts. How do the two schools compare in terms of your areas of interest, academically and EC-wise?</p>
<p>In terms of the students who attend, bear in mind that these two schools get many common applicants and admits. They are looking for an excellent university with a close-knit student body and lots of attention to undergrads. Yalies and Tigers are not two different species, but basically similar groups of young people.</p>
<p>One of the highlights of the first year at Princeton are the wonderful freshman seminars. This is a highly developed and successful program. When my d was applying, Yale didn't have any. I believe they have some now, but it would be worth comparing the breadth of their offerings to see whether your chances are equally good at getting a place in one. </p>
<p>Re the eating clubs' breaking up two years of "progress," you tend to bicker or sign up for clubs along with the friends you have been making for the past two years. So it is really more about building on the friendships you've already made. Despite the scuttlebutt here, the eating clubs do a lot to bring together the student body, because it's the place most everybody congregates (it's very easy for frosh to get passes) and people go from club to club. </p>
<p>As for four-year residential colleges, although they are enormously appealing to pre-frosh I remember reading somewhere that a high percentage of Yale students doesn't like the the system (even though they love their college), amazingly enough, because they feel isolated from students in other ones. This is certainly what I hear from a lot of students at Princeton. They appreciate the support and identity they get as members of a residential college, but many of them are very eager by junior year to room and eat with friends they've made in their ECs who live in other residential colleges.</p>
<p>I don't think either of these schools is in the middle of nowhere. One is urban, the other bucolic. Neither is NYU...or Bowdoin. You certainly won't be bored at either school! And both are close enough to NYC for trips to the theater, etc. I'd say it's more a matter of taste. Yale has those gorgeous collegiate Gothic spires. Princeton has some of those in a beautifully landscaped campus that is just breaktakingly beautiful.</p>
<p>aparent5 definitely makes a lot of good points. i just wanted to add that the "snob factor" really shouldn't worry you. the fact is, most of the people on this board who will be going to princeton are regular middle-class people, and i don't think any of us would have applied if we felt we'd be alienated because we weren't rich. quite on the contrary, princeton offers the best financial aid program (a no-loan program) of the ivy league, thus attracting a very socioeconomically diverse student body (has the greatest % of students on fincancial aid out of any ivy). just like at yale, you'll encounter some very rich people, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. as for eating clubs, as aparent said, most of them are just large social groups that you join with clusters of friends, and they're not homogenous groups either by any means, although some clubs have certain reputations just like a fraternity system. some you must go through a process for entrance much like a fraternity, called bicker. these are the ones that people generally consider to be elitist, because they select members. but, if you check out the bicker clubs and find that you don't like them for whatever reason, then you can join a sign-in club (the majority) of your choice. so, if anything, eating clubs are less elitist than, say, fraternities, because most of them are sign-in, and they all seem to interact with each other pretty frequently with parties, etc.</p>
<p>With regard to isolation, note that there's a NJ Transit station on Princeton's campus, which means you're an hour and a half away from Penn Station at any time. Furthermore, since NJ Transit is publicly subsidized, train trips to NYC from Princeton are much cheaper than the Amtrak trips you would take from New Haven. But while New Haven is less safe than Princeton, it unquestionably has more restaurants, clubs, etc.</p>
<ul>
<li>Tim, Princeton '08</li>
</ul>
<p>note that this is the same for yale, it is 90 minutes away from grand central via metro north, so nyc is equally accessible.</p>
<p>Right, but that's not the point. It costs $70 to make a round trip between New Haven and New York on Amtrak, while the same trip on NJ Transit from Princeton to New York costs only $22.</p>
<p>actually, I was talking about METRONORTH (not amtrak), its the equivalent of NJtransit in CT and NY --costs about $25 for a round trip from New Haven to Grand Central in NYC (90 minutes). Amtrak will cost you excessively more and be only a few minutes quicker, but can also get you to further destinations (DC, Philly, Boston), and stops frequently in New Haven.<br>
So you see, its really the same.</p>
<p>It's one hour and 10 minutes from the on-campus Dinky station to NYC Penn station. It's 1 hour and 40 minutes from the New Haven train station to Grand Central via Metro-North.</p>
<p>These details are not worth choosing Yale over Princeton or Princeton over Yale. I'd say that if you can, visit both, see which you prefer more, and feel happy that you're able to make such a hard yet luxurious decision.</p>
<p>not only that, I doubt that the AVERAGE Yalie (in my experience) or Princeton student travels to NYC more than once or twice a semester - so its really a non-factor in terms of social lives at those respective institutions. I'm sure there are exceptions (such as those interviewing for jobs in NYC, or even live there as was the case for a few yalies), but if you want NYC, go to Columbia/NYU not Princeton or Yale.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments. What you aparent5 and christopher said about the housing and eating clubs was particularly useful.</p>
<p>I do have one question. Are there any books 'about' Princeton, the way that there's "Chloe does Yale", or the occasional book by a disenchanted Harvard student. I realize such books are usually critical, but still help to paint a picture.</p>
<p>Also, to what degree should i take into account already having contacts at one school, i.e. profs who like me and lots of students i know?</p>
<p>There's the Rule of Four, and This Side of Paradise. They aren't exactly about Princeton, but are set there.</p>
<p>Iki, most people join the eating club that they are friends with in residential colleges, so u shouldnt worry too much about that =P</p>
<p>"The Rule of Four" is fun. If you want a student point of view, the freshman guide isn't bad and is written with a certain amount of edge and humor: <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pub/sg/%5B/url%5D">http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pub/sg/</a> And I assume you have been reading the student papers? <a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian%5B/url%5D">http://www.dailyprincetonian</a> and <a href="http://www.nassauweekly.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.nassauweekly.com/</a></p>
<p>If you are a hs student who has already got Yale profs to like you, I don't think you would have a problem connecting with profs at Princeton! They are mostly friendly and helpful to students who make the effort to talk with them during and after class and during office hours. The freshman seminars and freshman writing courses offer opportunities to be in very small classes, working very closely with faculty, as soon as you arrive on campus.</p>
<p>It's also great you know students at Yale. Some college students seem to hang out with hs friends; others move on. Hard to know ahead of time. Students at Princeton seem to be extremely friendly, outgoing, and eager to welcome the incoming frosh who want to get involved in activities.</p>
<p>Iki,</p>
<p>I'm a Princeton freshman who debated whether to apply Yale EA or Princeton ED. I also visited Yale last winter to do research (their library had all the original papers from somebody I was writing about). </p>
<p>My random observations:</p>
<p>Yale is virtually all buildings and streets. I saw very little greenspace. You have to navigate across New Haven traffic to get anywhere. Princeton is mostly buildings and grassy quads; it feels more like a quintessential college campus.</p>
<p>The interior of Yale's main library is nicer than the interior of Firestone. This is sort of a minor point. Princeton has some great smaller libraries.</p>
<p>As for eating clubs, I agree with aparent5 that the system is not really that elitist. Passes for bicker clubs are easy to obtain, and many people will go to both bicker and sign-in clubs in the course of a night on the street. Yale's secret societies, on the other hand, are truly elitist. You can party at any of the eating clubs, but you'll never see the inside of Skull & Bones.</p>
<p>Yale secret societies are not part of campus life, nor do they constitute any sizeable part of the undergraduate population save around 10% of the SENIORS only. On the other hand, eating clubs, and all of their pros and cons, constitute the core of social life at Princeton for ALL upperclassmen. You can completely and easily avoid secret socieites at yale (in fact, you don't know they're even there;). The same cannot be said for eating clubs.</p>
<p>edit: APARENT, where did you get the notion that Yalies are unhappy with residential colleges? This is simply false. Do you have support for that notion or is it just heresay?</p>
<p>Agreed on The Rule of Four, bokonon and aparent. There have been some really helpful '08ers and even some '07ers out there who have definitely added the prefrosh in the process. Thanks, guys :) I know a lot of Yale '08ers have done the same, though, so that just goes to show you...whichever you pick, you can't lose.</p>
<p>Crimsonbulldog, am leaving now but will try to find the link. It was a survey done on the Yale campus. When I read it I was flabbergasted, because to me the residential colleges had always been Yale's crowning glory. Although many students obviously like the residential colleges, the system was also one of the most frequently named aspects of their undergrad experience they disliked, because although they appreciated getting to know students in their own college so well, they missed knowing others outside it better. </p>
<p>In any case, students will have access to this system now at both Yale and Princeton, complete with well-known outside speakers, fitness centers and libraries, trips to Broadway shows, etc. From what I hear from Princeton students, though, they like the flexibility of keeping it optional.</p>
<p>It's worth noting that at Yale the residential colleges get a lot of funding from their respective alumni, which means that legacies can choose to be in their parents' college and that the colleges have different amounts of money to spend on events and amenities. The Berkeley dining hall menu is one of the more controversial examples of that, unless they have decided to spread the joy to other colleges. This inequity is more relevant to the life of the average student than is the existence of the secret societies. At Princeton, because the administration is so eager to develop the residential colleges' identities, funds are being lavished on them. </p>
<p>That said, the system in both schools offers students a whole level of advising and socializing that just doesn't exist at colleges without it.</p>
<p>In the end, I suggest visiting. You can't go wrong! Great schools. Congratulations and best of luck to you.</p>
<p>Yale Yale Yale Yale!</p>