<p>I've managed to narrow my list down to Yale or UPenn for undergrad. I plan to major in either psychology or cognitive science, pre-med and I'm African-American so I'm looking for strong diversity and good race relations. If anyone can give insight on the social scenes, people, bests/worsts, environments, teachers, sports culture, spirit, etc it would be amazing. </p>
<p>Less than two weeks to decide!</p>
<p>as someone who lives in PA and used to live literally down the block from UPenn and who also literally just got back from Bulldog days, here’s my thoughts</p>
<p>There isn’t much of a way around it, there are more African Americans at Penn, probably more Latinos too, and Philly’s a great place despite Penn being in the “hood”</p>
<p>social scenewise: depends on what you’re looking for, community service/extracurriculars are probably equal, Philly is a city and you can hit the clubscene if that’s your style, New Haven? not so much(I don’t think…) People seem friendlier at Yale though</p>
<p>you’re also looking to go pre-med and the Penn Med school is top notch, I haven’t heard much of the Yale one (draw your own conclusions, or better, look that part up:)</p>
<p>Professors look more approachable at Yale and the res College thing is really really cool, at Penn, when you live off campus, make sure you double bolt EVERYTHING (actually, do that even if you live on campus)</p>
<p>I’m going to Yale, I felt safer there, more comfortable, relaxed, etc.</p>
<p>The thing is though, for you, Penn has better diversity, better program(?), possibly better social scene</p>
<p>have you visited both? this is just my take</p>
<p>I went to Yale undergrad and Penn for grad school, and highly respect both schools. I honestly believe, though, that Yale offers a far better undergraduate experience: I really loved Yale’s campus and the college system; Penn never reallly grew on me. Yale is much warmer, friendlier place and the atmosphere is much more intellectual than at Penn. I am sure pre-med at Penn is great, but I know that Yale is consistently on the very top in terms of premed placement statistics. And, let’s face it, longer-run, a Yale degree carries with it a bit more prestige.</p>
<p>Here is a study done by the Wall Street Journal a few years ago about placement into top grad/professional programs from undergrad programs. You’ll see that the % of Yalies matriculating at top programs is almost 3x the % of UPenn undergrads. </p>
<p><a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights;
<p>I can’t really coach you on relative attractions for an African-American. I will point out that in contrast to what the prior poster said, if you go on petersons.com and check the respective profiles of the student bodies, you will see that the undergrad body at Penn is 8% African American, while at Yale it is 9% , ie, about the same. Obviously, both cities, Philly and New Haven have large and culturally rich African American communities.</p>
<p>Since your question specifies strong diversity and good race relations, let me share with you my daughter’s impression: She saw a lot of self-segregation on Penn’s campus. She picked up some really negative social vibes there. Enough to make her cross off Penn from her list of schools to apply to. On the other hand, Yale had a lot of mixing of races and ethnicities and she felt a very relaxed social atmosphere. She loved that aspect a lot.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m a little oversensitive, but as a white student, I’ve tended to feel a little uncomfortable about the vibe some colleges give off when they brag about the diversity they have on campus. Kind of like “hey black kid! You don’t have to hang out with all the stuffy white kids! Look at all the other black kids we have!”</p>
<p>But coming back from bdog days at yale (didnt apply to penn, only visited) I didn’t really feel any sort of that vibe at all. Part of the deal at Yale is that theres extremely little room for self-segregation. College assignments are random, roommates are random, and etc. There are cultural clubs, but when I saw people running around campus the groups were almost always multicolored, which I thought was nice.</p>
<p>If youre asking where there are more black kids, I couldnt tell you. But I do know that more than any College I’ve been to, race seemed to play almost no role in the social scene at yale beyond the ethno-cultural centers.</p>
<p>But maybe someone disagrees. Thats just my opinion.</p>
<p>Although it’s made strides in recent years, Penn still remains a bit pre-professional as opposed to intellectual, for better or worse. I’d also say that Yale is more liberal, but that’s a matter of degree. Obviously both are fine schools but I can’t imagine turning down Yale for Penn. Few people do. </p>
<p>About locking the doors? I’d do it at either place.</p>
<p>My daughter picked Yale over UPenn and she loved her time at “Bull Dog Days”. I have known a few professionals that went to Yale and/or UPenn for undergrad or med school and they all said, Yale was their best experience. My daughter always commented how friendly the students were at Yale, the professors seemed approachable and she liked the non-frat atmosphere. It’s a personal thing though. Diversity has always been a plus there, but she also liked that she has met students from not only all over the world, but rich, poor, and in-between, with all different experiences.</p>
<p>I think it depends on what you want to do- if you want to study engineering or financial economics than obviously go to Penn. There are a few top private equity firms and hedge funds that only recruit at Harvard and Penn (becuase of Wharton). That said, for other fields like math, chemistry, physics, biology, history, English- the graduate program rankings are very close so at the undergraduate level it’s a moot point. Yale is renowned for history and English, best in the ivies if not the very best in the world,</p>
<p>medicine: Penn is #2, Yale is #6.
law: Yale is #1, Penn is #7
business: Penn is #5, Yale is #11
engineering: Penn is #23, Yale is #39 (go to MIT, Stanford or Cornell if you want a private school)</p>
<p>Penn and Yale are both in somewhat economically depressed areas.</p>
<p>OK, I’m an Old Blue (pretty old at this point). I would never advise anyone to turn down a chance to go to Yale as an undergraduate. Everything people say above is true – the atmosphere at Yale College is friendlier and more intellectual than at Penn, and there is less cliquishness among students (whether by race, religion, academic interest, extracurriculars, whatever). There’s also less ostentatious displays of wealth at Yale – its not cool to show that stuff off there. At Penn, competitive dressing is definitely a varsity sport, especially for women. (Flip side – women are much better dressed around Penn, and clearly spend a lot more time on personal appearance.) Fraternities and sororities (including historically African-American ones) are important at Penn, and almost completely not at Yale. The academic opportunities at Penn are fully comparable to those at Yale, but the students don’t care as much about taking advantage of them (as opposed to prepping their med or law school applications).</p>
<p>Anyway, I am also a long-time resident of Philadelphia, including 10 years in the Penn area. There are some real, and really important differences in race relations between Philadelphia and New Haven, and between Penn and Yale as far as their relationship to the surrounding community is concerned.</p>
<p>Philadelphia has its problems, but it is far more vibrant than New Haven, with a lot more to do (of course, you knew that). Philadelphia also, like Atlanta, has a real Black middle class (and upper class, for that matter). African-Americans hold power, participate in business, etc. While there are certainly poor, ghetto-like, racially segregated areas, some of them near Penn, on the whole that does not define the Black experience in Philadelphia. Unfortunately, that’s much less true in New Haven.</p>
<p>Yale is immediately adjacent to the New Haven central business district. Penn is about a mile-plus (and a river crossing) away from Philadelphia’s, but still pretty close. Because very few Yale undergraduates live off campus, and because everything that isn’t Yale-connected in New Haven is hanging on by its fingernails, there is a very sharp division between Yale and its surrounding community. That division often produces hostility, especially between mainly white Yale and the mainly African-American community that starts wherever Yale ends (except for the Italian enclave around Wooster Square). At Penn, there’s no such sharp division because half of the undergraduates and almost all of the grad students live off campus, most of them in the area just to the west of the campus, which is one of the few truly house-by-house integrated areas of Philadelphia. Penn has also done a lot to encourage faculty and administrative employees to live in that area, too. While there can still be “town-gown” tension in West Philadelphia, and specifically racial tension, there just isn’t the kind of sharp divide between the communities that there is in New Haven.</p>
<p>Why would you even hesitate? Go to Yale. It is the better one of the two. And I think that you need not worry about race relations - people at such colleges are at an intellectual level at which such discrimination or any type of abnormal treatment owing to race differences should look outlandish.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Yale provides you with better job opportunities and is the more widely recognized one…Do not understand me wrong - both of them are amazing and you will not make a mistake going to either one of them, but Yale is Yale. Harvard, Yale and Princeton - those are the schools at the very top, so, if I were you, it would not take me a lot of time to decide…</p>
<p>Congrats!</p>