I’ve been fortune enough to be admitted to Yale, Princeton and Harvard, however I am split three ways in terms of which school to pick. I will be attending Bulldog Days, Princeton Preview and Visitas, but I was wondering (since this is the Yale thread) if anyone has personal experience choosing Yale over H and P or if anyone could offer suggestions/help with deciding. My major right now is undecided, though I am heavily involved in the arts, so that is a path I am considering, as well as/or possibly an Econ major. I want to get the most out of my undergraduate experience and have a strong alumni network/career services post grad. Any anecdotes or insight would be appreciated!
Also, cost is a non-factor; I am receiving the same aid from each school.
my daughter chose Yale over Princeton (to her father’s dismay, as he’s a Princeton alum). I think it came down to the urban setting over suburban, and the “preppy” feel she got from P’ton (eating clubs in particular turned her off). She was a STEM major so it was the “surprising” choice on that basis alone.
@vantasonic Two of my kids chose Yale over Harvard. I suggest that the decision will become more clear to you after your visit to all three schools. Both of my kids had an overwhelming feeling that Yale was home during Bulldog Days. And they were right. They both have enjoyed an enormously happy and successful college experience as well as gained lifelong friends. Neither can imagine being anyplace else. You are best served to choose the school at which you will thrive…and I think you will have a gut feeling that makes this clear. Make room to listen to your gut on this one. Good luck to you and congratulations!
@gibby may be able to shed some light. I believe she has (or had) one at Yale and one at Harvard.
I think their relative strengths are:
H - Boston, leadership development
Y - Residential colleges, humanities
P - Undergraduate focus, senior thesis
I personally don’t agree that Harvard has an edge over the others in leadership development or that the senior thesis at Princeton is unique (most Yale students do a thesis which can be very meaty). I also think you can get a great education in practically any field at each of the schools, so would be deciding based on other factors.
OP - I’m a recentish alum and made the same choice between these schools. Feel free to private message me.
These schools all have more similarities than differences, which I think can be summed up into three categories: location, undergraduate focus, and community.
I myself am a Yale College alum (although I was a student back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), got my PhD from Harvard, and my S1 went to Princeton (class of '14), so here’s my thoughts on these differences:
Location:
Harvard - It depends on what you like, but the majority will say that Harvard has the best location, and I definitely agree. I think Harvard may have one of the best locations of any college in the country. Cambridge offers a homey, college town feel, yet you are just across the river from one of the biggest, most exciting, most historic cities in the US. You have the best of both worlds. I does seem that a fair amount of Harvard students do not take advantage of Boston as much as they thought they would, and stick in a ‘Cambridge bubble’.
Yale - New Haven may not make many ‘top cities for tourists’ lists, but it has absolutely plenty to keep college students occupied (like great pizza), and Boston and NYC and doable for day trips. Many people will tell you that New Haven is the worst thing about Yale, and since there aren’t many other negatives they may be right (my bias is showing). When I went to Yale, New Haven was not the safest place, but as I’ve gone back over the years for reunions, I can assure you that the area of New Haven near Yale is great and completely safe thanks to the university. The other areas of New Haven are another story.
Princeton - My son described the town of Princeton as ‘sleepy’ and it definitely revolves around the university. It also has a clear suburban feel but Trenton is only 15 minutes away by car. It’s a small city but has malls, movie theatres, restaurants. If that is not enough, NYC and Philadelphia are both only an hour away and trains make them relatively easy to get to even without a car. Since he turned 21, my son also visited Atlantic City quite a few times (and thoroughly enjoyed it, according to Facebook), although that is further away and harder to get to without a car.
Undergraduate focus:
Harvard - Harvard is grad focused and anyone who says it isn’t doesn’t know what else is out there. Harvard isn’t Enormous State U in that the majority of classes will be small seminars, but a lot of your introductory level classes will be taught by grad students/TAs and it will be very hard to spent time with a professor outside of class/office hours (if they are even conducted by professors) as they will focus their attention on their grad students. I know - I was one of those pesky grad students who taught intro classes and took all of the professor’s attention. If you are a self-directed/independent learner or someone who prefers to learn from their peers rather than teacher, I wouldn’t worry about Harvard’s grad focus.
Princeton - Princeton is definitely undergrad focused. In fact, you may argue that there is no better research university to find an undergrad focus, except debatably Dartmouth or Brown. I can’t speak from first hand experience, but DS has said that almost all of his classes were taught by professors. He made very close connections with some of his professors, both academically and personally. Just a few months ago, he made the trip from DC where he lives up to NJ to visit several of his professors even four years after he’s graduated. You do still have to put a fair bit of effort in to have these kinds of relationships with professors; DS has some friends who didn’t really see their professors outside of class and office hours. I will also say from my experience with my D1 at Williams, S2 at Wesleyan, and D3 at Kenyon that Princeton’s undergrad focus is not as strong as that of a LAC. I can’t say what lab research opportunities are like as DS was in Woody Woo and not a STEM kid.
Yale - Yale roughly strikes a balance between Harvard and Princeton when it comes to undergrad focus, with a slight undergrad focus. The close connections with professors are not something handed to you on a plate, however if you actively seek them out you’ll have no problem getting it. During my time at Yale, several of my professors had me over for dinner at their house, others took me to department events, set me up with connections at other universities when I was applying to PhD programs. Developing close relationships with professors was one of the most important things to me when it came to college, and the main reason I almost chose my father’s alma mater, Swarthmore, but I’m glad I didn’t. As long as you are confident and proactive, you can make Yale an LAC-like experience. From my memory of my classes at Yale and the amount of classes I know my grad student friends and I were teaching at Harvard, it does appear to me that a higher percentage of classes are taught by professors at Yale than at Harvard.
Community:
Yale - Although Harvard and Princeton both also have residential college systems, they just don’t create the same community feel that Yale’s does. I think this is partly because they aren’t really for all four years, and partly because people just don’t seem to take them and their residential college community as seriously as at Yale. My residential college was, and is, like my family. It also allows you to make Yale as big or small as you want. You most likely won’t live in your residential college your freshman year, however most of the freshman friends I made were in my residential college either through living in a dorm building together or residential college events. I also made friends with quite a lot of upperclassman through my college who helped guide me and advice me; they were like my peer mentors. I continued the cycle of community in my upperclassman years by befriending freshman to help advice them and pass on my ‘wisdom’.
Princeton - It seems to me that for the first two years at Princeton community is defined by the residential college system and this switches to the eating clubs (or co-ops) during junior and senior year. I don’t think my DS ever talked to me much about his residential college, which I think says something. He did, however, talk a lot about his eating club experience, which he loved. As I’m sure you know, some eating clubs are bickers (selective) and some are sign-ups (non-selective). My DS chose to join a sign-up club as he was looking for a club that had an atmosphere that was close-knit and had a community feel, but in a friendly, not elitist way. Princeton’s eating clubs give you the choice between a selective and a non-selective community.
Harvard - Granted, as I was a grad student I don’t know much about community at Harvard College. But at Harvard you don’t join your residential until sophomore year, and part of the reason the community is so great in Yale’s residential colleges is that, despite not living in the college until sophomore year, I made the majority of my first friends and made connections to upperclassman who helped support and advice me through my college during my freshman year. You also have the Final clubs at Harvard. The male ones have a of of history, great alumni connections, and a house where they hold parties. The female ones, not so much, as they are only a few decades old. My colleague who went to Harvard College said that the Final clubs dominate the party scene and since it is a pool of self-selected men controlling the social scene with who is allowed in to the parties, she said that the social scene is tinted with an air of elitism and sexism, compared to being all inclusive.
To sum it up, I would probably rank the schools like this:
Location: H, Y, P
Undergrad focus: P, Y, H
Community: Y, P, H
Best advice - attend each school’s accepted student days and make your decision based upon that. Academically, you cannot go wrong with any choice you make of these three. But they all have very different vibes. You will definitely find a better sense of what you want after going to all three. Even if you have visited before, it is a different ballgame as an accepted student. You know need to see each school as a possible place to live the next four years. At this point, nothing anybody can posture here on CC can really assist as YOU are the person who has to live and study where ever you choose. BTW, congratulations on your acceptances!! Good luck.
I have attended both Harvard (grad) and Yale (undergrad and grad) and have talked to many undergraduates at all three (HYP) as I was involved in recruiting. Relatively speaking, Yale and Princeton devote more resources to their undergraduate programs, which has a definite impact on student interaction with senior faculty and on the quality of the undergraduate education. Princeton has relatively fewer graduate programs and no professional schools which enhances its undergraduate focus. All members of the Yale Faculty of the Arts and Sciences are required to teach at the undergraduate level, a fact which contributes substantively to the Yale undergraduate experience.
Although quite subjective, it has been my experience that the happiest, least competitive and most collaborative undergraduates of the three can be found at Yale. My daughter who is currently an undergraduate at Yale, with close friends at both Harvard and Princeton, has confirmed that my impressions are not outdated. As YaleMomOf7 points out, while New Haven has improved dramatically over the last 30 years, it still cannot compare with Cambridge. You should definitely visit all three and talk to as many students as you can while you are there. You will know which environment and program is the best fit.
As for the alumni networks, all three have outstanding networks and very loyal alumni who are willing to help out. Finally, regarding your interest in the arts, I believe that Yale has the strongest offering. Yale’s outstanding Drama, Art and Music Schools as well as its many museums on campus make it a leader on this front. Congratulations and good luck in your selection!
One more point on leadership development. A few years ago, Harvard Business School conducted a study to determine the top 100 business leaders. It then examined the most common educational backgrounds of this exhaulted group. Turns out that the most common graduate level educational background is Harvard, while the most common undergraduate educational background is Yale.
According to results of a survey just released, most students at Yale seem to be very happy.
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2018/04/04/most-students-happy-at-yale-survey-shows/
Everyone always talks about New Haven. But except for going back and forth to the train station, volunteering at a community organization (by choice, I may add), grabbing a bite to eat at the trendy casual restaurants that have cropped up, or going to pick up meds at the Rite Aid, how much do Yale students really interact with New Haven. I have the answer - not at all. With its residential college system, great dining halls and most social activities happening on campus, Yale is not dependent upon the surrounding area like some other schools may be. Also, reality check. Harvard always touts Boston as a selling point, but I know that most students have neither the time or motivation to go into Boston. Cambridge over the years has turned in a commercial / retail zoo. I live there for a year in 1983 and went back in 2013 for a conference. It was unrecognizable.
Again, as I stated above. To each his/her own. My D has friends at Harvard. They seem to like it just fine. The enthusiasm level may be just a notch less though.
Re Harvard and Boston, student happiness:
DS has a good number of friends at Harvard. They get together every now and then, and also visit during The Game. The Harvard friends whinge about H when they visit. DS doesn’t know anyone at Yale that whinges when they visit H. Small sample size, but unanimous survey results. It might only apply to DS’s circle of friends; YMMV.
We don’t know enough Princeton students to express an opinion.
I guess one of the reason why students at Yale are more happy is, grade inflation. Princeton has been famous for its grade deflation, and students seem to be very competitive. Brown has an extremely generous grading system and is known for the happiest Ivy.
At The Game you hear way more people saying they wish they had gone to Yale rather than saying they wish they had chosen Harvard. Of course there are some students who feel the reverse, but they don’t seem to be as common.
@pearcedel - grade inflation is definitely not a factor in the happiness of Yale students. Also, I wish I knew which classes inflated their grades. I would have steered my D to them over the last 4 years. I know I worked my butt off for my grades back in the dark ages (with varying degrees of success) and my D has worked likewise to get her stellar grades over the last four years. There was many a Friday or weekend night when she was holed up in her room studying. I took her roommates to Florida freshman year for spring break and every morning the first thing they did was get up and study before going to the pool, Disney or any other activity. Their choice. Trust me, there are a lot of folk who are satisfied with “gentlemen’s C’s” and who glide through. But any student that has a stellar GPA puts in the work for it the vast majority of the time.
Great choice. Two daughters chose Harvard over Yale. They have many friends who went to attend Yale and Princeton from prep schools. Harvard kids has no spirits. Yale friends seemed very happy. If you want to work abroad Harvard has more name. In USA, it does not matter as all threee have great alumni network. If Amazon becomes a first trillion dollar compnay, Bezos is going to give lot more money to Pton. Have fun!
I will say long term money, prestige does not matter, we all want to be happy and loved so choose wisely.
I wrote this 5 years ago and stand by every word, although in the last several years Harvard has been trying to be more student-centric like Yale: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/yale-university/1483765-choosing-yale-over-stanford-and-harvard-p1.html
@Tperry1982 - Isn’t that part of Cambridge so depressing now? I grew up in the area, and all the high school kids used to hang out around Harvard to skateboard, etc. Now it is so sterile! BTW, there isn’t much town gown friction with students, but locals prefer the administration of MIT to Harvard. The latter is known for treating its workers more poorly than other local schools. Wonder if that is still the truth or just the vestiges of past experiences.