<p>Many applicants find Harvard, Princeton more generous</p>
<p>A long, interesting article explaining the mysterious ins-and-outs of financial aid at HYP, as Yale strives to narrow the aid gap for the Class of 2009.</p>
<p>good for the ydn and the students to force the issue with the administration.</p>
<p>They had to cover the building takeover by the protesters. Other campuses have taken note. Nothing like a riot or a sit-in to get attention!</p>
<p>I wouldn't characterize the story as "self-critical", but rather as displaying the usual obsession with measuring Yale against Harvard (and, in this case, Princeton as well) in all things.</p>
<p>I also enjoyed the opinion article by the dean of the college about why free speech at Yale is so important.</p>
<p>I think it is interesting that not only Yale but all the top schools seem intent on developing financial aid programs that are, facially, difficult to compare. </p>
<p>I'm sure this is intentional. All an applicant can do is await his aid packages and compare them, dollar for dollar. </p>
<p>The other message to take home: don't accept the first offer, but ask for more. The process of calculating how much aid is necessary to meet "need" is more an art than a science.</p>
<p>"They had to cover the building takeover by the protesters. Other campuses have taken note. Nothing like a riot or a sit-in to get attention!"</p>
<p>So true.
I had to laugh, though, that 15 (15!) students sitting peacefully in a building brought out the troops. I think the fact that it was "Admissions" made all the difference..."required" the campus police which brought the press. Had they chosen the commons or old campus, no one would have noticed.</p>
<p>And com-on, byerly - YDN does a pretty good job of being critical of the school when they see fit. And the kids protesting are not doing it to keep up with the jones, but see an opportunity to actually make a difference in their lives by making this comparison. Who else can they compare Yale's aid to - no one else's is any better!</p>
<p>It sounds like the student group doing the "protesting" is loosely affiliated with the graduate student union group - which has a lot of experience in getting under the skin of the Administration in general and Levin in particular.</p>
<p>One commentary article bemoans Yale falling short of Harvard and Princeton in financial aid, but denounces the tactics of the "protestors" as akin to the opportunistic Harvard leftists jumping on Larry Summers while he's under attack to press their own agenda.</p>
<p>" It is inexcusable that Yale lags behind rival institutions like Princeton and Harvard when it comes to the generosity of financial aid packages. Administrators in the provost's office may worry about how much Yale can afford in terms of aid, but what the University cannot afford is to lose desired students to other Ivy League schools. That Yale experienced a 1.2 percent decrease in applications last year while Harvard and Princeton witnessed 15 and 20 percent increases, respectively, is not only a dishonor to the University, but a very serious problem as well -- despite the embarrassing attempts of Yale's number crunchers to excuse the figure away. Money should not be an issue for the bright and energetic students who want to study here or the parents who will end up footing the bill. The best way for Yale to live up to its meritorious function is allow for economic diversity -- not the phony "racial diversity" that discriminates on the basis of an applicant's skin color.</p>
<p>But before we enshrine the Admissions Office 15 alongside the Chicago 7, the Gainseville 8 or the Catonsville 9 in the pantheon of social reformers, it would be edifying to take a look at how the administration and our elected officials -- the members of the Yale College Council -- are dealing with the topic of financial aid reform.</p>
<p>For months, the Yale College Council has been working diligently with Dean Salovey and other relevant administrators to address the very real concerns that students have with regard to financial aid. In spite of this, members of the UOC have repeatedly expressed their resentment that University officials refuse to meet with them. These self-appointed spokespersons for the "university community" refuse to accept the fact that there is an institutional apparatus through which they can air their grievances -- the YCC -- and that an alternative exists to grandstanding in front of The New York Times."</p>
<p>What I don't understand is why the GESO would get involved in protesting UNDERGRADUATE financial aid? That seems a little opportunist, jumping on any chance to protest the administration. I support the protest and think that a little student civil action at Yale is a healthy thing, but I feel GESO's involvement as subterfuge. After the Grad students voted against unionization in an open (and even unfair) election a few years ago and the recent defeat at the hands of the National Labor and Relations Board, GESO has been clamoring in any way to attract attention at their increasingly tenuous position.</p>
<p>I'm hoping that they do change their policy on aid a lot. I received nothing from them in my aid letter :p.</p>
<p>Does anyone know the right way to go about haggling with two colleges for financial aid? I know that they say you can't do this, but I've heard from a private college counselor I know that you really can.</p>
<p>crimsonbulldog - how involved do you thing GESO is in this? The UOC is undergrad, and I recognize some of the names as kids involved with the college Dems, and the Dean campaign from last year. (friends of my D, in her class) I know Levin alluded to GESO involvement, and I know the critic of the protest that Byerly posted mentioned their possible involvement, but I don't see anything real evidence of this.
What I'm getting at, is that I don't think this is a GESO thing - the kids, like Josh and others are taking this on themselves. Am I right? You're closer to it than I am, as everything is second hand news for me. I think there are enough undergrads with political passions that they don't need GESO to get them going.</p>
<p>I hate GESO. It's a worthless organization with no purpose. And I consider myself a liberal!</p>
<p>How will this benefit the Yale athletics program?</p>
<p>Yale has responded, at last, to the H/P financial aid initiatives; now, will H/P escallate the battle further?</p>
<p>Apropos this topic, read this recent, facinating story from the Columbia Spectator:</p>
<p>A Mounting Advantage?</p>
<p>"Rising Endowments at Harvard and Princeton Have Affected Financial Aid Offers and Could Cause a Divide on the Playing Field"</p>
<p>i have a question. when they talk about parents' income, do they mean just total income or gross adjusted income? it seems to me that the latter is fairer (correct me if i'm wrong).</p>
<p>The forms can vary, school to school - for example as relating to home ownership.</p>
<p>Last year, after Harvard launched its "Financial Aid Initiative", I speculated - not entirely in jest - that the impetus had come primarily from the coaches.</p>
<p>As I have previously noted, the Ivies lose more recruits than they would like to to the "athletic scholarship schools" like Stanford, Duke and the state flagships.</p>
<p>Since they are barred (by Ivy religious principles) from offering either athletic scholarships or "merit aid" of any kind, the only way they can go mano-a-mano for top jocks is by scouring the nation for poor, but athletically gifted (and at least somewhat qualified academically!) "student athletes."</p>
<p>As long as that QB or shooting guard etc. is poverty-stricken, we can go dollar-for-dollar with Notre Dame, Stanford, Michigan or Duke for his "services."</p>
<p>The same principle, of course, applies indirectly when recruiting top URMs or those with top grades or other "attributes."</p>
<p>The ability to pay top dollar for poor-but-desirable recruits enables the Ivies (and HYP in particular) to fight back, indirectly, against poaching by other schools offering not only athletic scholarships but "merit aid" of any kind.</p>
<p>That has already been posted.</p>
<h1>18 posted to flesh out some details</h1>