<p>
Low, but also self-inflicted.</p>
<p>“I am really weary of these “percentage going on to a doctoral degree” lists. I think those lists are nonsensical even if you include law and medicine.”</p>
<p>There really are people who think that the quality of undergrad education influences the ability to be admitted to and succeed in grad schools. 
But it certainly is true that such lists are of interest mostly to those who are interested in careers in academia and/or research.</p>
<p>By the way, I have been taking an adult-ed class at Swarthmore where most of the participants are Swarthmore alumni, and Swarthmore does really well on the “still going on endlessly, even after thirty years, about how great their college experience was” scale, too.</p>
<p>The scope of that list is kind of limited anyway. People who get Ph. D’s have the time and desire to do the dissertation… they don’t automatically become preeminent in their fields or anything.</p>
<p>I find JHS’s advice illuminating, except for this:
This is true, of course, but there are other compelling reasons to choose Carleton. For instance, if you want to always be taught by a professor; if you want to experience a majority of seminar classes (also present at Yale but hardly with the emphasis of an LAC); and most importantly–if I have read you correctly–the unique social atmosphere of Carleton. Quirk is celebrated, and the community is defined by common characteristics rather than deliberate randomness as at Yale.</p>
<p>Ultimately, you should visit and choose the school that you love the most.</p>
<p>I too was choosing between Yale and top LACs, Amherst and Swarthmore. I really loved Swarthmore but I felt I was just a better fit for Amherst, socially lol. I really wanted the small school feel with focus on undergrads and really a really intense classroom experience. So I was pretty set on going to either Swarthmore or Amherst (I got early writes) until I met Yale lol. I went into Bulldog Days not expecting much, I thought Yale was going to be too big, impersonal, intimidating, not welcoming ect. But as soon as I got there, I knew Yale was right. For me, the main thing was size. Swarthmore and Carleton are really, really small. And I don’t think people realize how small these communities are until they’ve actually lived there for a while. And while this can be appealing for some people, seeing the your same 500 classmates every year can get a little boring. I have friends at Swat and according to her everyone knows everyone and everyone’s business. Yale offers the benefit of being both an intimate community with the residential college system, and a larger school where there are always new people to meet.
Other factors included, Yale’s superior departments of history and poli sci, the people I met at Bulldog Days who are still some of my closest friends, the opportunity to get involved in the community of New Haven, and other small things. I’m really happy here. Hopefully you’re able to visit both schools and see which one feels like a fit for you.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for all of your advice. It’s going to be quite a decision. Sgtpepper08, I’m most likely going to major in History or Political Science so I was hoping you could give me some insight into how large intro courses really are and how many TAs you’ve had teach you.</p>
<p>I’m the parent of a Yale freshman. If you’re thinking about a history major, go to Yale! </p>
<p>Consider applying for Directed Studies. With the program limited to 125 students, and small discussion groups which meet with professors, it is a great way to get that seminar experience.</p>
<p>2blue, I am definitely applying to Directed Studies. If I knew I would get in, I would probably not be posting this thread : )</p>
<p>2blue, I highly encourage you to contact your admissions req and discuss Directed Studies and your situation. Although I’d bet you’d get in anyway if you’re interested, Yale will preadmit students into Directed Studies for students who expressed this in their “why yale” app, who meet other criteria, etc. If it truly is a reason for you to come or not come to Yale, you should certainly make this clear to your admissions rep and see if they are willing to preadmit or prereject you from the program. </p>
<p>FYI, I have a good friend at Carlton who is not a big fan. His roommate and another student in his dorm didn’t even make it through the first semester; they transfered to U of Minnesota.</p>
<p>Yale gives you flexibility. You can choose courses in such a way that you’ll never have a class with a TF and more than 20 people or you can choose huge lectures. Likely, you’ll choose both.</p>
<p>Political science majors have more seminars available to them than to those in history and their lectures are typically smaller than those in history. That’s not to say that you can’t take many small classes in history, though there’s a good chance that more of those will be junior seminars (which, if you get into, will be fairly demanding).</p>
<p>A word on Directed Studies: Both my wife and I did Directed Studies as freshmen, and generally liked it. But the three courses that meant most to me from my freshman year were all non-DS lecture courses, one with about 60 students (and no sections or TAs; everyone was required to schedule a couple of one-on-one meetings with the professor), one with 200 students (and weekly TA-led small-group discussions), and one with 500 students (ditto). My TA in the last one grew up to be Chair of the Yale English Department, and two years after he taught me he was at Princeton and called “Professor”. TAs at Yale are not usually second-rate.</p>
<p>I know you are trying to give your own perspective booyaksha, but bear in mind that your friend who transferred out of Carleton is quite unusual in that regard. Last year’s retention rate was 97% and Carleton’s alumni are generally extremely satisfied with their experiences. Last year it had the highest alumni giving percentage of ANY college in the U.S at 64% (Yale’s was 43%). To be fair, I do think the value and significance of that statistic are often overstated, but I think it’s safe to claim it demonstrates a collection of alumni that are quite happy with their experiences. There’s nothing wrong with choosing Yale over Carleton (or vice-versa), but don’t do it because you think you’ll be unhappy at Carleton, because statistics suggest that’s pretty unlikely. Good luck!</p>
<p>Directed Studies is a great program, but probably best for humanities nerds rather than people seeking an intimate environment. I just want to make that distinction, because a friend of mine dropped out of DS a few years back after not really understanding the rigor of the work. I’m not saying OP or anyone else doesn’t understand that, I’m just sayin’.</p>
<p>Carleton seems really, really cool. It’s one of my favorite LACs. I think that if you take an admitted student trek you’ll know pretty quickly how well you’d fit in there. Yale obviously is big enough that you’ll almost definitely find your group.</p>
<p>^^ I’m going to second what JHS writes about taking a variety of courses, in a variety of teaching situations. When I look back to the courses that I had as an undergrad, some of the ones in which I learned the most were in areas I would not have otherwise studied, but I had distribution credits to satisfy: geography (for a lab science), philosophy (for a teaching credential), religion, poli sci, anthropology. In a large introductory course a student who is exploring can often learn a great deal from an enthusiastic TA who’s a good leader, in combination with a mighty-famous-somebody who might be deeply into thinking about a problem as a specialist. Both the grad student and the professor can provide good teaching.</p>
<p>Transfers out of Carleton are indeed unusual. My Carleton son has a friend who transferred from Carleton to Tufts, and within weeks decided to transfer back to Carleton.</p>
<p>Many Carleton students pick Carleton over larger “brand name” universities. I recall one who explained to me that he picked Carleton over Yale simply because it felt like a more pleasant place to spend four years. He’s now at Google.</p>
<p>So where did the OP choose?</p>