<p>Hey everyone i'm doing this post for my friend because he doesn't have an account. He was accepted at Yale and Michigan in the early decision/action period and is having a hard time deciding due to financial reasons. He will have to pay full price for Yale(60k) and in-state for Michigan(~15k, he received some scholarship dont know the name) which if attends Yale will leave him with a extremely large student loan. He will most likely do something business related so it makes the decision ever harden considering how good Michigan's business school is. So, basically he wants to know where to go and if you could provide your reasoning behind it that would be extremely helpful.
Thanks!!</p>
<p>If he is pre-admitted to the business school, go with Michigan. </p>
<p>Pre-admit to Ross is on par with Ivy schools. I’d probably go Yale but if he wants the big state school environment and needs the money it wouldn’t be so egregious to pick Ross. Yale econ is a slightly higher target for iBanks and Consulting firms but if he’s smart enough to get into Yale undergrad I’m sure he’d be just fine getting a great job out of Ross too. The bschool here certainly won’t limit anyone’s options.</p>
<p>“Nobody gunning for Yale goes to Michigan.”</p>
<p>If you can’t afford Yale, the OP isn’t getting any money from them, then Michigan is a very viable alternative. Yale is not worth 180K more than Michigan/Ross PERIOD. </p>
<p>“The propaganda here is on another level. Wow.”</p>
<p>So is the arrogance.</p>
<p>Yale will open more doors. There are firms that don’t even consider anything less than the top Ivys</p>
<p>The What if? Factor is bigger when choosing not to go to yale. Debt can typically be repaid(considering if youre qualified to go to Yale and interested in business) but you can’t really make up an experience like a top Ivy. Then again Do you really think successful state school alumni like Stephen Ross, Youtube, Groupon founders are kept awake at night for not going to HYPMS? No, they are laughing their way to the bank</p>
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<p>What propaganda? It might be a little easier to get into banking from Yale Econ than Ross, but it’s still plenty possible from Ross and the savings in that over Yale is 180K. That’s huge. Everyone’s gotta make their own value decisions here, but it’s certainly not without trade-off to pick Yale over Ross. </p>
<p>It’s one thing if his family could afford to pay for Yale. If he’s going to be stuck with 150k in loans, that will probably compound to closer to 200k-250k by the time it is repaid. You may make a great salary in I-banking, but living in New York isn’t cheap. </p>
<p>If I’m working 100 hour weeks, and get paid a 30-60k bonus, the last thing I’d want to do with that bonus is to repay student debt. Especially when 90% of the firms that target Yale are also targeting Ross. </p>
<p>If you’re cut out for I-banking, whether you go to Ross or Yale, you’ll likely get a similar job. It’s about what YOU do at the school, not the school itself. I’d say the same of nearly any target.</p>
<p>And if he doesn’t want to do high end finance or consulting? Then going to Yale would be pretty much be a waste of 150k+…</p>
<p>Wow. Really? Yale will cost $180,000 and people think this is an obvious decision? That is a lot of money. The OP clearly stated that his friend will have to take a significant student loan, so money is a concern. This is not a straightforward decision. Yes, Yale (which is on par with Harvard, MIT, Princeton and Stanford) is a better overall university than Michigan, but no way is it $180k better if much of that money will manifest itself in the form of debt. The alternative in this case is Michigan (which is on par with Cornell, Northwestern, Penn and UVa) not some second rate university. Choosing Yale would not be unwise, but it is not obvious either. This is a very personal decision, and there is no right or wrong. It really depends on one’s priorities. Financially, Michigan is the more rational choice. Going to Yale will most likely not make up for the $180k spent on tuition rather than being invested soundly from day 1. But there is something to be say about having gone to Yale for college. It is indeed a special experience.</p>
<p>Good points bluebound. There’s clearly a lot to consider with strong arguments on both sides. Posters taking extreme positions should back them up in a better way than we’ve seen above. For example:</p>
<p>Alexandre - you say “but no way is it $180k better” and then later in you post say going to Yale would not be unwise and that it is a persona decision. After starting by admitting it is not a straightforward decision you contradict yourself with strong statements and then a balanced evaluation of the other side of the argument.</p>
<p>rjkofnovi makes stronger statements with no balance. Frankly, the statement is flat out wrong. You’ve made the point that the decision is completely clear. I can assure you that many people that went to Yale and had career earnings of many millions of dollars realize they may not have had that type of opportunity if they had gone to Michigan. For example, if you look at the educational background of senior partners at many private equity shops you’ll see a very limited number of schools represented. Coming from UM would significantly reduce your job prospects at these firms where the average senior employee an make north of $5 million per year. In that context, $180k in student loans would b e considered a very wise investment.</p>
<p>“Nobody gunning for Yale goes to Michigan.”</p>
<p>Nobody? So certain are we? 25% of Michigan’s incoming class had a perfect 4.0 unweighed GPA, was ranked in the top 5% of their high school class and most of those students scored 1500+/33+ on the SAT/ACT, and yet not one of those 1,500 incoming Freshmen was “gunning” for Yale? That’s a remarkably astute observation. I suppose those gunning for Yale do not apply to any target schools…either that or Yale must really suck for those 1,500 freshmen not to have even considered applying.</p>
<p>For a sense of perspective, Yale is generally rated anywhere from 1-5 while Michigan is generally rated anywhere from 6-20. Woefully flawed ranking methodologies and unethical data reporting practices may cloud the issue and severely distort some rankings, but most people involved in graduate school admissions or corporate recruiting aren’t fooled.</p>
<p>Alexandre, you bring up some interesting points but it’s not that hard to get a 4.0 at some podunk high school in Northern Michigan. High GPAs are a dime a dozen to elite given the large amount of high schools in this country. As far as those high test scorers, its possible they were rejected from every top 20 private school they applied to or they were in-state in Michigan so they found attending the U of M to be a great bargain.</p>
<p>As far as Michigan being rated 6-20, I can’t seem to find any undergraduate rankings that put it in that range. On USNWR it’s #28, Forbes ranks it #30, Business Insider rates it #20, and The New York Times has it out of the Top 100 Global Universities according to corporate recruiting.</p>
<p><a href=“Education - Image - NYTimes.com”>http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2013/10/28/education/28iht-educlede28-graphic.html</a></p>
<p>Michigan’s graduate programs are top 10, its professional programs are top 15, and its undergrad is top 30. I would say that is a fair assessment of The University of Michigan as an overall institution.</p>
<p>“Lifetime earnings of avg Yale grad isn’t $180k more than avg Michigan grad? I find that very hard to believe. Cite your source. Furthermore, it’s quite hard to quantify the connections made witlh the elite that you attend Yale with.”</p>
<p>180k over a career is a LOT less than 180k (plus interest…?) now. Inflation…? Plus, if you’re making 500k+, you value money a lot less than you do when you’re right out of college. The utility of money now is much higher than later.</p>
<p>More importantly, WHO CARES ABOUT THE AVERAGE? The average Michigan grad is slightly less intelligent, and much less interested in prestige and income. If your friend got into Yale, he is likely in the top 20% of students at Mich. The kids in Ross who are ‘I-banking’ material WILL LAND GREAT JOBS. Yale will NOT just give you a job at Blackstone or Lazard. </p>
<p>And please. Don’t act like Ross grads aren’t well represented in every desirable business industry. I’ve networked with numerous Ross grads at top HFs and PEs. I’m sure Yale’s network is also exceptional, but don’t act like Ross is a 2nd tier b-school.</p>
<p>You just gave yourself away goldenboy using that flawed NYT survey that you always like to post…</p>
<p>The student is studying Business. What is Ross ranked by USNews? #2</p>
<p>I wish posters who pretend to be new on CC would just man up already and use their old screen names. Of course that would be difficult if they were banned…</p>
<p>The persistent desire to bump Michigan into elite company is insufferable. As a Michigan bound high school senior I don’t wish to be associated with people like you. Michigan is a respectably ranked, fantastic value for residents of Michigan. It’s engineering and graduate programs are some of the best in the world. Please stop trying to make the undergraduate college something it’s not.</p>
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<p>You should figure out why you have such disregard for the institution you claim you will attend next year.</p>
<p>I do not think it is the people who are happy with UM that are insufferable in this situation. </p>
<p>People who do the research, run the numbers and know what opens doors in this world understand the Michigan pull.</p>
<p>Maybe someday you will, too. Until then, you may want to work on your approach, because if you are remotely genuine, you have issues that you should probably handle. </p>
<p>Michigan is ranked #28 by USN & WR, 30 by Forbes. Alex - do you really believe that if it weren’t for “unethical data reporting practices” of 10 higher ranked schools, UM would be 6-20? </p>
<p>USNWR rankings favor private schools. </p>
<p>UM is ranked 2nd (3 way tie) bu US News for undergrad b schools. However:</p>
<p>a) “These undergrad business programs were ranked solely on a peer assessment survey conducted in spring 2013”</p>
<p>b) Schools like Yale and many of the other top 30 schools in the country weren’t included because they don’t have undergrad business schools.</p>
<p>If the OP had indicated that the applicant really wanted to study business in undergrad then UM would have been the logical choice (since Yale doesn’t offer that curriculum).</p>