<p>My parents constantly insist that Yale is in the "ghetto" and has an awful campus. What do you guys think? (I did not visit). </p>
<p>Of course, I'll never get in, but you know...</p>
<p>I'll quote: Yale itself is gorgeous - architecturally only, it is by far superior to other Ivies (i've heard that the Harry Potter dining hall was modeled after Yale's). New Haven is not all that gorgeous, and sure, you do have to be careful, but nothing major, really no need to worry about it. But New Haven and the Yale campus are diametrically opposite, and you don't even have to leave the campus all that often. Plus, there's always New York nearby to compensate for it! I ran into a very interesting article once which talked about New Haven being one of the wealthiest cities in the United States (there was some sort of scale), and the reason for that is Yale. While New Haven itself is indeed not that wonderful, Yale brings up the level a lot, making the Yale campus ample and simply idyllic. Remember, I haven't visited myself. I was just quoting friends.</p>
<p>There have been many, many threads on this topic. It is probably the only thing that is consistently thrown out as a criticism of Yale and so I will try to respond as neutrally as possible.</p>
<p>First of all, before we visited, my DH and I had a very negative view of New Haven. New Haven had deteriorated in the 80's and we couldn't imagine our daughter going to school there. </p>
<p>We were very misinformed. We had been basing our opinions on an outdated version of the city. In recent years, Yale has poured money into the revitalization of the city ($400 million per year) and the downtown area surrounding the college has been changed into an exciting place with numerous restaurants (every kind of ethnic food you can imagine), small shops, etc. The money has also been used to promote industry and economic growth within the area. </p>
<p>New Haven is still a city and beyond the campus there is poverty. If a student attends Yale, it is hard to ignore the contrast between the haves and the have nots. As with any city there is traffic and as with any impoverished area there is crime. As you walk around town you will see some homeless people wandering among the privileged. </p>
<p>So, if you want a bucolic setting without any reminders of the plight of the less fortunate, Yale is not for you. </p>
<p>If, on the other hand, you wish to be part of university that takes its obligation to society seriously and works for solutions that society faces, then you should consider Yale. </p>
<p>Students are safe at Yale. There are numerous sites where you can find crime statistics and compared to the other Ivies, they are really no different than the other schools. Because Yale is in a city, students are encouraged to use common sense when they are out late at night and consequently, they may be in less danger than those students who wander about with a false sense of security in a more remote area. </p>
<p>Whenever this topic comes up, the discussion usually disintegrates into some nasty school bashing. The most highly selective schools are all different and each has its own appeal and should be considered accordingly. New Haven is no longer a city in crisis and for our daughter, it was one of the reasons she wanted to attend Yale. She really couldn't be any happier. If you are a viable candidate, encourage your parents to take you for a visit. You will know if it is the place for you.</p>
<p>I couldn't agree more, worknp. I was prepared to dislike New Haven, based on things I'd read. After our March swing through the Ivies, including Hanover, Princeton, New Haven and Providence, the latter two campus/city combinations won out, for both my daughter and me. Why? Because of the things you talk about: obvious diversity of residents, shops, restaurants, and so on, compared to the bucolic but almost Disneyish character of the other two campuses. Don't get me wrong. There were wonderful things about all four schools, but the edgier feel of New Haven and Providence turned out to be pluses.</p>
<p>A friend of ours who is a 1970s graduate of Yale said that the current president, Richard Levin, has done wonders improving town-gown relations in all ways and things are a thousand times better. So perhaps your parents are hearing stories from the olden days!</p>
<p>Here's a bit I copied and pasted from Dr. Levin's page on the website:</p>
<p>"As president, he has invested over $2 billion in the physical renovation of the campus, announced a billion-dollar commitment to strengthen the Universitys science and engineering programs, launched numerous international initiatives, and designed innovative partnerships to advance economic development and home ownership in New Haven."</p>
<p>FWIW, I'm not an alumna and have no kids at Yale, but we do see productions at Yale fairly regularly and have no qualms about visiting.</p>
<p>There's already a thread on this. New Haven has changed enormously over the past decade and is now easily the best college town in the Ivy League and one of the best in the United States - on par with Ann Arbor, Charlottesville, etc. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, it is on the verge of becoming too expensive/gentrified for students, in some respects.</p>
<p>See:</p>
<p>Sorry, but (i) having graduated from U of M and being in Ann Arbor on a regular basis for sports and cultural events AND (ii) having a D currently attending Y with frequent visists to New Haven, there is no way that New Haven is on a par with Ann Arbor as a college town.</p>
<p>New Haven is fine and getting better, but it is not the equivalent of Ann Arbor. I know that I risk posterX posting a lot of "facts" and "statistics" about New Haven, but this is my firm opinion, based on quite a bit of time spent in each town, admittedly as a visitor. Again, note that this is not a slam on New Haven, which is a city that I enjoy.</p>
<p>Wouldn't it be nice if Harvard and Yale could just magically switch locations? :)</p>
<p>actually tetris, no it wouldnt be that great.</p>
<p>part of the thing that kills harvard campus life is that boston is too interesting to get people to stay on campus.</p>
<p>plus all the real estate by harvard is $$$, so that is obviously not good</p>
<p>oh, i'd love for Yale and Columbia to swap...yale in new york! it doesn't get any better!!!!!!</p>
<p>UMDAD, Ann Arbor has great sports events and a nice (though somewhat disneyland-like) downtown strip that is fun to visit, and has good coffee shops, but in terms of overall ambiance, diversity and stuff to do, I would say New Haven is actually a significantly better college town. To a visitor, the places to go in New Haven are there but aren't necessarily as obvious as they are in Ann Arbor where everything is on two or three little strips. New Haven's overall location is better -- better climate, more coastline & parks nearby; not to mention the fact that Ann Arbor is 250 miles from Chicago, the nearest mega-city, while New Haven is 70 miles from NYC via about 50 trains per day (and only 130 miles from Boston). New Haven is also much, much larger: according to Claritas, there are 251,000 people living within a 5-mile radius of Yale, versus just 154,000 within a 5-mile radius of UMich -- and that includes students. There is also more of a regional job base and more college students in the area that use the downtown area around Yale, which all translates into more interesting things to do (hundreds of restaurants, clubs, cafes, interesting neighborhoods and cultural events, theaters), more diversity (similar to NYC or Chicago in that sense), and more opportunities for interesting work/internships within a short walking radius of the Yale campus when compared to Ann Arbor. </p>
<p>Also important to consider is that Yale has a more compact campus overall, with every dorm within a 2-3 minute walk of every other one, so students constantly run into everyone they know pretty much several times every single day. UMich's dorms/off campus living create a more spread out feel so the social life just isn't nearly as vibrant in the same sense (I'm talking about overall vibrancy and 24/7 frequency of student-student interaction, not the size of the frat parties, of course). Yale is much denser.</p>
<p>It depends on your taste but in an overall sense, I'd definitely give an edge to New Haven. Having talked with several individuals who were recently students at both universities or who have lived in both cities, including two of my closest friends, I think that most people who have been more than just visitors to the two within the past 5 years would agree. I'm not saying Ann Arbor is bad - it's obviously one of the great college towns of the world along with places like Athens, Charlottesville, Boulder and Madison.</p>
<p>I agree with one of the posters above - when your campus is located in a huge city, campus life generally becomes dead. Greenwich Village (NYU) is kind of a unique case because it happens to be a center of life for the whole city and is flooded with NYU and other university students, but most urban campuses including Columbia and Harvard have totally dead campuses when compared to places like Yale or Michigan. And that's a really bad thing when you consider the fact that, at both urban and rural campuses, the vast majority of time is spent right near campus. Having a lot of people (both professors and students) leave on a regular basis erodes social networks, creates divisions in the student body based on who can afford the $25 cab rides, and makes a campus feel impersonal.</p>
<p>Having lived in both AA and NH (albeit as a student although I frequently return to Yale), I can say AA is great for a starting family. My first house was 1/4 mile away from the Big House. I would catch the bus into downtown w/my 3 yr old just because I didn't want to park and enjoyed its excellent public transportation. There may be a strong likelihood that I may return to CT and I wonder how the vicinity of New Haven could serve my family's needs.... Just a thought for y'all.</p>
<p>posterx,</p>
<p>You are so far off on the make-up and ambience of Ann Arbor that it is absolutely ludicrous. FYI the Detroit metro area is 4.5 million people.</p>
<p>However, a debate with you on anything in relation to New Haven is a waste of time, so I won't bother mucking up this thread any further.</p>
<p>Even if it had 20 million people, Detroit would not be in the same category as Chicago, New York or Boston -- not even anywhere close.</p>
<p>My son attends High school in the same city ( new haven) as Yale. It is about 2-3 miles apart. to travel from his high school to Yale is like a WAR zone. However, the immediate area around Yale is gorgeous,safe, and culturally diversed. It is VERY well monitored by the school and local police. Just be smart. My son also applied RD to Yaleso we are hoping he gets in!!</p>
<p>"Even if it had 20 million people, Detroit would not be in the same category as Chicago, New York or Boston -- not even anywhere close."</p>
<p>Very true (and obvious) - but the point is that Ann Arbor is not in the middle of a cornfield. UM students can and do head into Detroit, as they also head over to Chicago.</p>
<p>"New Haven being one of the wealthiest cities in the United States"</p>
<p>Depending on which U.S. Census Bureau definition of the New Haven urban area you use, out of about 350 urban areas/cities in the United States, New Haven is either the third-wealthiest (after San Francisco and San Jose, California) or about the 25th (which also places it well within the top 10%). However, the reason for that is not Yale, even though Yale does pay its employees quite well. Yale has about about 19,000 faculty, graduate students and staff on its payroll, which represents a tiny fraction of the 250,000+ jobs within the Labor Market Area. The reason has more to do with the fact that the New Haven region is very well-educated and has a very high proportion of corporate-related and technology jobs -- more than just about any other metropolitan area in the United States. In addition to Yale, companies like General Electric and Sikorsky have their world headquarters nearby, and there are many biotechnology firms now located in downtown New Haven. Fairfield County, which is just a few minutes from downtown New Haven, has more hedge funds than any other place in the world except London and Manhattan -- the AVERAGE hedge fund employee makes approximately $800,000 per year. Some of those firms have recently moved to New Haven proper and many of the employees (as well as the wealthier employees at some of the big corporations in Hartford, which is only 30 miles away) live along the shoreline in or near New Haven.</p>
<p>
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New Haven being one of the wealthiest cities in the United States
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<p>I love PosterX's sense of hyperbole. New Haven is one of the poorest cities in Connecticut with a median family income of about half the State average and 25% of the population lives under the poverty line. It is NOT a few minutes away from wealthy Fairfied County unless 45 minutes to an hour qualifies as a few minutes. </p>
<p>The immediate area around the Yale campus is relatively safe. But New Haven is no San Francisco, Cambridge or Ann Arbor. Think South Bronx and you get closer to the picture of much of the city.</p>
<p>Cellardweller, you have to distinguish between the municipal boundary lines and the U.S. Census Bureau or Bureau of Economic Analysis-defined urban area. New Haven is one of the wealthiest urban areas (cities) in the United States. The area under the central political jurisdiction (New Haven City Hall) is tiny, just a few square miles, because those jurisdictions were laid out in the 1700s as the area was one of the first in North America to be settled by Europeans. Obviously the median income figures within that tiny central area are low, in large part due to the preponderance of students -- Yale isn't even the largest university in central New Haven; Southern CT state is. </p>
<p>Bottom line is that in order to compare one city to another, you need to use the U.S. Census metropolitan area figures. In that respect, New Haven compares with San Francisco, San Jose and other wealthy cities -- except with better restaurants downtown. Obviously, because it is a large city, there are a few poorer sections with little Mexican cantinas and Chinese take-out joints, where many recent immigrants and/or students live, but there are also areas with multi-million-dollar mansions, French bistros and gourmet grocery stores every two blocks.</p>
<p>Just curious, posterX, do you live or have you lived in New Haven, or would you rather not say?</p>
<p>I love Yale/New Haven and agree that if the traffic is reasonably clear (read: hardly ever), it is "minutes" away from Fairfield County, but that means nothing to a pedestrian in New Haven--and what students care two cents about Fairfield County? They'd hop on Metro North and go to NYC or head the other way to Providence or Boston, or stay on the very lively campus. I can't see how New Haven can be compared to a "college town" myself, certainly not like Chapel Hill (I've lived in CH, but I've never been to Ann Arbor but someday mean to get to Zingerman's). Frankly, i think it's silly to argue the relative wealth of New Haven. The relative wealth of New Haven would have to do with the relative wealth of Connecticut, and the relative wealth of New England, and so forth. Yale is a vibrant university and there's no need to prop it up.</p>