Yet another 9th grade course selection question

Parents Forum
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I think mathyone’s argument is that he can take easy courses where he already knows the material and will be bored (and few things are more boring than to be re-taught a foreign language you already know), or he can take different easy courses and not be bored.

Does his school not offer fun electives? Cooking, woodworking, ceramics, photography, sewing?

If he really would prefer to sit through a French 2 class when he’s already fluent, then okay. But a kid who is really interested in learning for its own sake (and it sounds like your kid is) would rather learn something new.

On another note, this may be way off base, but it’s possible that your kid may be in for a rude awakening at some point. There’s a difference between a kid who is high-achieving in school because of natural ability and one who gets there through hard work. Has your kid ever had an experience where he really couldn’t get something done easily and he had to work really hard at it to accomplish it? If not, then the first time he comes up against that experience (and it might not be in the course of academics, but could be in another area of life) he won’t have the skills to deal with that. I am NOT saying that you should make him take history or another class he doesn’t want just because it will be hard for him – I am saying that you should pay attention to how he responds when asked to put in a lot of hard, uninteresting work for a goal he really wants to achieve (not for a goal he doesn’t care about, like history). If he doesn’t want to or can’t deal with the work and ends up abandoning the goal, that’s not good.

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Did I miss it or did anyone say that he had to take AP history? He could take regular history classes to fulfill requirements, and have less time commitment and writing.

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Mommdc, the school doesn’t offer AP History. It just offers an US history course. Given what I know of the school, there will be one short paper to write each day and one long paper to write each week. The load may be even more as that’s what I have seen in middle school. It’s a real pressure cooker school.

Dustypig, Not courses in cooking or sewing, but it offers courses in woodworking, ceramics, and photography. Again, the issue is fitting those in as there are only 24 credits to play with, there are graduation requirements, and so the only courses they can displace are Music Theory and Art History. Music Theory will be a no study easy course so again the kid naturally gravitated to that. He did think about taking visual arts, but then 1) he is not already good in it, and 2) he will have to work hard to ace it, and 3) there are others who have been doing it since they were a child and are really much better than him and he doesn’t have a shot at catching them, so he stuck to Music Theory which he knows already from years of self study, Conservatory Prep and competitive music composition. Again, it’s an optimization decision. Yes he will be super bored in Music Theory class (he already took a mock AP Music Theory exam and aced it). But if the goal is to keep course load down, what do you do?

I don’t think he is interested in learning for learning’s sake. He is interested in learning things that he is interested in learning, and pretty much nothing else. But when it comes to the things that he is interested in learning - English, Music, Math - he will go to incredible length and leave no stone unturned. I do agree with you that facing failure is important. He did face failure when he first started doing the math competitions. He took AMC 8 first time in grade 4 and cried when he couldn’t ace it. I chuckled, as it was teaching him a very important lesson, that he has a lot to learn in math, and to be humble. He didn’t give up though, he studied hard and then aced it. But if instead of math it was, say, science, he would have given it up immediately, as he has no interest in science.

84

I would not worry so much about your son. He seems like a very smart and very driven child and I have no doubt that he will end up at a top university majoring in something he’ll like and agrees with his social conscience.

As to your original question, you might find an answer on College Board: https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/get-in/your-high-school-record/are-you-on-track-to-get-in-academic-tracker

A lot of highly selective schools only require three years of one language and three years of Social Studies, which really surprised me. Of course, when it comes to actual Admissions it is probably a different issue as many students will have many AP credits in all subject areas at a 4 or 5 level. Usually, the guidance counselors attach a school profile to your child’s transcript to show what is actually offered. But again, with your son’s extremely competitive math record, I would not worry about anything. His laddering but also his ECs are above and beyond what most students can offer. The question remains how his leadership skills and volunteer activities will develop. Sometimes extremely focused students fall apart when hormones come into play. Girls go through that in middle school, boys mostly later.

But what I really wanted to say is that I totally agree with a) insisting on enough sleep and b) striking the right balance between easy and difficult classes. To most on this planet, your son’s math progression is extremely hard and most students don’t even make it to pre-Calc in high school. However, for him math is easy, languages are easy; history is hard(er). If it were my daughter, I would probably tell her to CLEP out of French and do something outside her comfort zone, something that does not come easy. Not easy, not in the sense of history not being easy but something that might not interest her at all. Unfortunately, not all things in life are interesting and it’s good to practice early.

Again, don’t worry so much about your son’s schedule. It will get adjusted as he goes along and sometimes it has nothing to do with content but who takes the course and who teaches it.

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Oh ok, when you talked about World History, US History and European History I thought you meant AP.

86

The logic that AP French will be any easier for him if he completes French 2 and 3 and 4? first when he already knows that material is flawed, especially since he may still be young enough to have a bit of an edge with languages next year. If you’re happy paying a fortune for him to learn nothing in school classes, that’s not logic, it’s your preference.

87

Good luck to him testing out. He’s missing two years of algebra, a year of geometry, and a year of trig.

88

Well, in my school, you need to take an elective course to graduate. Obviously, his school may be different. But in his senior year especially, I would encourage a lighter course. Robotics? Sculpting? Band? As a current senior, I can speak to this. The real challenge in senior year is staying motivated through all of your classes once you receive all of your acceptances and commit to a school. Senioritis is real lol. I’m not saying this will be your son, but you want to avoid a situation where he is at the end of his senior year, and his grades begin to slip because he is done with high school in his head. In addition, as a senior year, you have a hidden class. It’s called ** College Applications ** and the best applications take up quite a bit of time. Your son will have to spend time writing supplements, filling out applications, taking exams, and interviewing, all while maintaining his extracurricular activities.

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I just think if he’s serious about his English studies he should be willing to do some more history. Understanding literature requires some historical context. Many types of writing depend on a certain level of historical literacy also. I think the college requirements are only a minor concern. I have a hard time believing that a top school would reject a kid with such good accomplishments in math and the arts over a missing history credit. But it certainly doesn’t hurt to meet all their expectations.

If you are eliminating foreign language how can that interfere with graduation requirements? He’s going to have 5 or 6 language credits even if you skip two years of French.

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@DadofTeen I agree with you that our colleges expect kids to do too much. Even Oxford and Cambridge, the 2 oldest and most prestigious universities in the world, admit solely based on academic records. Same goes for all the most prestigious universities in Europe, Asia, Canada, Australia/NZ. No other country has this thing called “holistic admissions” which I think is just a way for our elite colleges to keep out those who aren’t in their preferred demographics(athletes, legacies, URMs, developments etc.).

But thanks to holistic admissions our HS kids are completely stressed out not just with academics but with all the ECs, volunteering, part time job etc. It’s madness! And for what? Do we really produce better kids? I don’t think so. All these kids from Asia are coming into our colleges, dominating the STEM fields and taking all the good STEM jobs, while 55% of our college grads are either unemployed or underemployed. Check out this article on Bloomberg today, even Ivy League grads are having a tough time finding jobs, much good “holistic admissions” is doing us:

“Nice Ivy League degree. Now if you want a job, go to coding school”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-07/coding-classes-attract-college-grads-who-want-better-jobs

The most ridiculous thing is even medical school admission is now “holistic” - being member of a certain demographic, volunteering or participation in sports now count almost as much as your science GPA, is that crazy or what? What do I care if my doctor was a good lacrosse player or taught underprivileged kids how to play chess, I just want a smart, good doctor who can cure my illness. It’s time to stop this holistic admission madness! ~X(

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" thanks to holistic admissions our HS kids are completely stressed out not just with academics but with all the ECs, volunteering, part time job etc. It’s madness! " Yes, it is, and it’s also unnecessary. My daughter didn’t buy into that rat race, she did what she wanted to do, ignored that tired list you gave of what is “required”, and things went pretty well for her. This kid seems to love music and one sport and that’s plenty for an academic star. No need for him to knock himself out trying to wow some committee of strangers with some imaginary agenda. The frenzy is being created by people who want to buy into it or are so hypercompetitive they are willing to ruin years of their lives (or their childrens’ lives) on the slim hope that doing so might boost the slim chance of getting into a more prestigious college.

Second kid is now also busily violating the prescription for successful admissions, doing (gasp) things that interest her and that she wants to do, and spending the majority of her EC time on things that will not win her any awards or recognition, after having dropped some things that already did win her state and national recognition. She is happy and I am confident she will be successful.

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Now I’m confused. If he is fluent in French, why would he only be in French 2 as a freshman?

Oh, I see that @mathyone asked the same question - but the answer doesn’t make sense. He doesn’t have to “get advanced” in French, he already is. So have him take AP French, take the exam, and be done with it. Then he won’t have the “pressure” (as you put it) of an extra language on his schedule. Instead he can do something extracurricular that he likes, that isn’t academic. (Is the school going to make him take another academic course if he isn’t taking French because he has placed out of it? I thought the school was flexible?)

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Mathyone, In the current plan, he is taking definitely taking 3 history credits, and may just double up in 12th grade to take 4. You are making it sound like that’s a disaster if he wants to study English. Is that really your point, or are you just upset that he is taking an easy course load? :slight_smile: As for paying the school to not learn something, I am fine with it, as I do not see the point of paying AND making it hard for oneself.

ReadyToRoll, The extra language is not a pressure, as he is fluent already. It’s an easy A in a likely honors course instead. :slight_smile: But yes, he has to take 6 credits a year. If he skips out of French 2 and 3, then he will need to find some similarly easy courses to replace them. The only options are statistics and computer science which will be almost as easy.

cmsjmt, I actually have nothing against holistic admissions. For my son, he would have done his music and sports even if there was no holistic admissions. He would do that because he likes to do it. He is starting to find volunteer opportunities, but that’s because he is a keen social justice kid. So, the main burden is to write it all up and submit it, which frankly is fine. What I don’t understand is studying so many courses, Honors, APs, SAT, ACT, SAT II, PSAT, X, Y, and F’ing Z alphabet soup. Why not have just one curriculum with no regular, honors and AP distinction, cut it by specialization - Math, Science, Social Science - so that kids take courses in just one specialization, add English and a foreign language on top, and voila! Also, do away with PSAT, SAT, and ACT (all useless IQ measuring exams), and just have SAT IIs (or AP exams if you prefer). This will tremendously reduce academic pressure. Then make arts and sports voluntary - if kids do it then they do it, if they don’t they don’t. That would lead to a much more relaxed high school life.

Calicash, he can drop Art History and take Orchestra in 12th grade if he so chooses I guess. Again, a no work course, but since he won’t be doing Orchestra for grades 9-11, he will probably be asked to clean up after the other kids are done playing. :slight_smile:

TallyMom, thank you. The one thing we never did is push him outside of the comfor zone. In fact, we never pushed him at all. That’s a good point and I will think about it.

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It’s not a disaster. It’s just replacing something from which he will learn nothing with something that would be helpful to his own stated goals. For someone who professes to just be following the kid’s interests you seem awfully concerned about him getting easy A’s in every possible way.

If he enjoys the music why not take Orchestra in place of the useless French?

Getting an education is hard. I’m not sure what you are paying for, why not send him to public school for the easy A’s and pay a fraction of the tuition you are currently forking over for the same college courses, taught at a real college level (as you have expressed concerns about the rigor of what might happen in the high school).

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But the kid’s interests are to get easy A’s as well, so why wouldn’t I follow it? :slight_smile:

What are his stated goals?

As for Orchestra, what would he learn from it? He is far above that level. And really, the whole point of life is to make it easy. That’s why we live in houses rather than caves. That’s why we have gadgets to make our lives simpler.

By the way, I never expressed concern about the rigor of the courses, you did. :slight_smile: What I am buying is flexibility and attention and not 20 extra written papers due over a semester.

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One of the goals I believe you said is to be an English major in college. You also listed some literature courses he wants to take in high school. Not looking back at it, but I think they weren’t necessarily contemporary literature.

I think you should also keep in mind that people change. Many people change their ideas about what they want to do in college or later in life. Even highly focused and precocious kids such as your son may take an unexpected turn. They may regret having ignored certain areas of a broad education.

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The English courses are just basic foundations. Cretive writing (3 courses), Shakespeare (2 courses), Modern American Poetry and Irish literature are core courses for most English undergrads. At any rate, it’s a hard sell that 4 history credits is ignoring Social Sciences as part of a broad education. I think you are just upset about the easy A. :slight_smile:

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" Any downside for college admissions?" You asked it. And the answer is the easy A which the GC in good conscience couldn’t fail to note.

Where are the 4 history credits? I see 3 history courses.

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Just putting it out there - assuming that the school even allows a proficient French speaker to take French 2, it will hardly make him popular amongst the other French 2 students. I’m all for balancing out harder and easier courses, but I would have been bored to tears taking an intro language class.

100

Yes it’s hard to imagine something less worthwhile than a low level language course for a proficient student. Not going back over this thread but wasn’t it mentioned that statistics or cs would also be easy for the student? Or orchestra? The problem is not so much “easy”, it’s “complete waste of time”.