<p>I've read many of the accounts in the parents forum that are similar, but I'm thinking there is a different slant on it.</p>
<p>Kid has just gotten in to UC Berkeley. No aid, in state. </p>
<p>She also was fortunate to get some money from NYU that makes it more reasonable. </p>
<p>She is actually thrilled with both options... but... I think she is potentially a better match at one of the small liberal arts colleges she was accepted to. None of them offered any money, so, as you all know, that means they are twice as much money. </p>
<p>Background... we could (if necessary) spend a quarter mil on college, we have only one child. However, it would put a serious dent in our retirement and her future inheritance. We don't come from money and we have no inheritances coming... we can only rely on what we have. We are very frugal. </p>
<p>I'm wondering if we're making a mistake by not pushing harder on the LAC option for her. Of course she will make the decision, but her practicality means she is not pushing for her LAC options. YES, we are very blessed to have such a level headed kid. </p>
<p>But I guess what I'm asking... is it worth pushing the much more expensive options? I'd love to hear from people who had or are having a similar experience... how are you working through it? </p>
<p>Believe me.. I feel extremely fortunate to be in the situation we are in BTW... </p>
<p>You might get more responses if you described her academic interests and characteristics, and why you think that one of the LACs (which ones) would be a better fit for her.</p>
<p>Endangering your retirement may not be a good idea for either you or her (if she ends up having to support you in your retirement because you run out of money).</p>
<p>She is VERY undecided but is drawn to environmental studies at this point. She might end up in the sciences, or I could even see her morphing to philosophy or international relations/political science. I know… She is very into social justice, so that would be another consideration. </p>
<p>LACs she has been accepted to include Reed and Smith (neither have given her scholarships/aid, those would be her two top choices). Waitlisted at Wellesley. Accepted to University of Puget Sound with 18k/yr merit. </p>
<p>The usual advantage of the LACs is smaller classes, particularly at the frosh/soph level. The usual advantage of a big university is a greater range of offerings, particularly at the junior/senior level. Which does she think is more valuable to her? Browsing the following may be helpful.</p>
<p>However, if the price difference is enough to endanger your retirement funding if she takes a more expensive option, then that does not seem to be a good idea, especially since it seems like she does not have a strong (or any) preference for the more expensive options.</p>
<p>How does she feel about any of this? Does she really want to go to one of those LACs? My one son who picked the LAC route over an ivy was so in love with the school after a visit that there was no question that was his first choice. I swear he would have turned down Harvard for it, and it was a great match for him, He had the most wonderful 4 years of his life. Yes, that was worth the cost and loss of name brand and prestige. But if this is YOUR idea…well, you aren’t the one going there. My next kid chose a big state school though DH and I really felt he would have been much better off at a number of LACs and other small school choices and if he really wanted to go to a state school, he could just as well have gone in state at half the price. But he wanted to go to that school, and it was within the price constraints we picked, so that’s where he went with our blessings. </p>
<p>What you think is not going to be as important as how she feels about this. If she wanted something unaffordable, that’s a whole other story, but as it is, let her make her picks. </p>
<p>The fact of the matter is, that if she bombs out of NYU or Berkely, you are only out the net cost, and I’m sure some small LAC somewhere would take her at full freight, though not the ones you have listed there, or if she does well and wants something smaller, at full price, a transfer is very possible. She may not get into Berkeley as a transfer, and getting that kind of money from NYU as a transfer is nigh imposssible. So she’s giving up some opportunities that are not really easy to get back if she lets them go.</p>
<p>cpt, of course I would never force a choice on her. We are frugal, she is practical and I’m sure our frugality has an impact on her decisions. I’m trying to figure out whether I should encourage her to think less about the money. </p>
<p>You raise very good points about the opportunities involved… a good reminder, it would be a lot easier to go the other way (UCB or NYU with scholarship to LAC) if she decided the big school was a poor match. Thanks for the comment!</p>
<p>However, transferring from a big university (as frosh/soph) to a small LAC (as junior/senior) tends to get mainly the disadvantages of each type, while minimizing the advantages of each type.</p>
<p>In terms of money, she has probably internalized the frugal mindset growing up, which is a good thing, since it will serve her well throughout the rest of her life. For example, she may have better job opportunities because she can afford to take a lower paying job that is more interesting or has more potential future career development than if she needed to support an expensive lifestyle or support parents whose retirement savings have run out. Or she can take riskier (in terms of potential for job loss) jobs that may be more interesting to her, simply because she is less likely to be one paycheck away from bankruptcy like so many people in the US.</p>
<p>I’d also let her choose, but after impressing upon her that you want to do what is best for HER. If in her heart of hearts she wants to go to Reed, then that is what you want, too. Has she visited? </p>
<p>Out of curiosity, what are the financial differences between going in-state to Berkeley vs NYU with the aid they are giving?</p>
<p>Is the aid from NYU guaranteed for all 4 years and has a reasonable conditions for renewal such as being in good academic standing rather than requiring maintaining a higher GPA minimum like 3.5+?</p>
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<p>If she’s this undecided and the choice is between Berkeley vs NYU, I’d recommend Berkeley not only because of greater spread of academic strengths all around, but also because living in/around NYC is very expensive and it’s not a traditional campus experience. </p>
<p>Also, NYU has the feel much more like a larger state university than an LAC or an LAC-like university so there’s little difference from Berkeley…especially in the first two years. </p>
<p>With the exception of key top programs like Philosophy where NYU’s Philosophy department is in the top 3 or Applied Math(top 1-2 for many years), there’s many areas where it’s a wash* or ones where Berkeley has greater strengths**. </p>
<p>Also, I may be mistaken, but my impression is Berkeley has a greater overall academic rep…</p>
<p>BTW: I am speaking as a NYC local who is familiar with the NYU campus and turned down admission there many years ago. </p>
<ul>
<li>IR, Environmental Studies(May be a tip to Berkeley here).</li>
</ul>
<p>** History, Poli-sci (Especially if you don’t want to be limited to quantitatively oriented Rational Choice theory which is heavily dominant in NYU’s Poli-Sci department)***, many STEM fields, etc. </p>
<p>*** Some of this is likely to rub off the IR programs as they are closely related to the Poli-Sci field. </p>
<p>cobrat, it’s about a wash in cost between NYU and UCB… maybe a $3-4k difference once you factor in airfare a couple times a year, though I guess it could be more. The bay area is also pretty expensive, so it’s hard to tell. </p>
<p>It’s guaranteed (partial) scholarship for 4 years with 3.5 GPA, plus additional support for housing if she does volunteer work in the summer. It’s their MLK Scholar program. </p>
<p>I think Berkeley does have a better rep… a better campus, a more cohesive school environment. But the NYU program is awesome. </p>
<p>I agree with those who have pointed out the frugality will serve her well. We have also been very open with the tradeoffs about schools. For example, she knows if she does UCB/NYU it’s more likely we will help with graduate school etc further down the road, if she chooses that. </p>
<p>I guess the big picture is I don’t want her to miss out on a life changing experience at a LAC, while of course I realize UCB and NYU will also very much provide for a life changing experience. Good problems to have all in all. </p>
<p>My son will be graduating this spring in Environmental Science. He has $27000 of loans to pay off before he considers graduate school. He will be working for a tree service at $16.00 per hour and living at home. He was offered quite a few entry level positions at state and US government agencies for similar salaries because of the opportunities he had to intern for a state agency due to the proximity of the agency to the University. He was unable to accept these positions because the expense of living away from home would make it next to impossible to pay back the loan. What I’m getting to is this: go to the school that has proximity to “real” jobs in the field. Research jobs for undergrads are often (but not always) “make work.” We looked through the resumes online of the students at Duke Environmental and, while all of the students had excellent academic resumes, very few had serious practical experience. Determine ASAP whether the student intends to work in Environmental Science, Education, or Law. All three require a minimum of a master’s degree (or law school) to earn a decent wage. A doctorate is better. So…go to the least expensive good school, work very hard on contacts, getting into the best internships possible, try to get into “real” jobs in the field in the summer. Seriously, save your $$. She will also need the money to travel to make contacts so that she will be accepted by a good school and prof. for her Master’s. Your daughter is very fortunate that you can pay for her bachelor’s, but the B.S. or B.A. is really just the beginning…BTW, many undergrad internships are unpaid, and many graduate internships average $12 per hour. Try to avoid these if you can. Some REU’s are good, but some are glorified summer camps! Sorry if this rambled, but I am too lazy to reorganize…</p>
<p>I fell your pain about the cost. My daughter was accepted into a prestigious program that we will have to turn down. The only way we could pay for it would be to take out private loans, and although her starting salary might be as high as $70,000 per year, we are only 4 years away from retirement on a teacher’s pension in a state where the pensions are in jeopardy. It’s just too much of a risk. And it does hurt because my child earned the right to attend and we can’t give it to her.</p>
<p>bookworm, indeed it’s hard… Before we toured colleges she swore she would only go to a large school. Then we visited LACs and she LOVED a couple of them. But then she has always had Berkeley as a dream school, and liked some of the larger schools we visited. </p>
<p>She is a complex kid with varied interests. I appreciate all the thoughts. </p>
<p>That 3.5 might be harder to maintain than you would expect. Has she checked out the curriculum requirements for the majors she is considering? Do the required courses play to her strengths, and does she have strong preparation (I am assuming she does, because she got into some wonderful schools). Would there be a problem if she lost the partial scholarship at some point along the way?</p>
<p>3.5 GPA is not necessarily easy to maintain in college. Pre-med and pre-law students have to manage their GPAs to those levels, and it often shows in such students looking for “easy A” courses, grade grubbing, foregoing potentially interesting but difficult (or difficultly graded) courses, etc… For an undecided student who wants to explore various courses, subjects, and options, that may be an annoying constraint to work within.</p>
<p>illini, wow, it seems like you and I are on the same page. Very good comments about grad school and debt, definitely concerns of ours. </p>
<p>Although my daughter is not pushing for a LAC now, there is still a part of me who feels very bad that she is making a choice based on finances… while at the same time I’m proud of her for being fiscally smart! </p>
<p>She has a couple of friends from her HS who went to NYU and reported no trouble maintaining a 3.5 GPA. They had similar GPAs in HS too. Still a good point, no guarantees. </p>
<p>One can’t go by HS GPAs to predict college-level performance as there are additional factors in play such having to manage one’s time much more independently than in HS and differences in academic pacing in HS vs college.</p>
<p>Many college classmates who were academic superstars in HS ended up crashing and burning within the first year or two, a number were academically suspended/expelled, and others barely made it to graduation. </p>
<p>On the flipside, others who were near the bottom of the class ended up performing far better than their HS GPA would have indicated…even if they were working part-time and maxing out their credit loads each semester. </p>
<p>In short, this is a very YMMV situation…and one which can be very hard to predict. </p>
<p>Seems to me that’s your answer right there.</p>
<p>My son always wanted a LAC and turned down a spot at Berkeley in favor of the out-of-state LAC. Big mistake. He did not finish there. (But for my son Berkeley would have been a mistake as well – in hindsight he probably should have accepted a spot at somewhat less prestigious but larger school.) </p>
<p>But the problem is that the LAC environment that was ideal for the 18 year old high school grad was not at all a good place for the 20 year old he became. LAC’s can be constraining-- especially if it is smaller, standalone school (as opposed to a LAC that is part of a consortium or has ties to a larger, nearby university. So I don’t think a parent should push a LAC over a mid-size or larger university. If the student wants that – fine – but it’s not something to push unless the parent has very real concerns about the kid’s ability to function in the larger environment - probably not a concern for a student who has applied to Berkeley & NYU. </p>
She is very into social justice, so that would be another consideration. </p>